Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 1:05pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
JohnLyn Said:
Spoke with Gaetan, supervisor at Breville Canada. They are quite helpful just not knowledgeable as they do not have a tech or engineering dept.
Both of the Err1 and 2 are associated with the NTC computer component (whatever that is), that is attached to the boilers.
The Err1 should indicate a short and he would have expected the machine to not be operational following the receipt of this message.
the Err2 is an indication that something is wrong and therefore the Err message is triggered, they just don't know what triggers it. The reason the acidity was brought up is that there was a documented case in the US and the techs there discovered that the machine was reacting the the acidity of the water used. This person had also gone through three machines. I have checked the water I am using and it is Ph neutral.
A short detection circuit could be triggered by an undervoltage, depending on how the machine is configured - a shorted element would try to draw more current than the supply could handle, which would show up as a low voltage across the element. Obviously you can get the same effect by supplying a low voltage to the machine. The processor itself should be on a regulated DC supply that wouldn't be affected. So the ERR1 could be consistent with a supply undervoltage.
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 1:38pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
JohnLyn Said:
.................... I not sure why I am persistent in solving the problem. Part of me figures that I should just cut and run. However, seeing as the problem is unique to me I figure it can be solved and that is what I hope to do. SO, holding on to this machine but if the Err message comes up again I'm out.
Well, you can be planning for 'plan B', but in the meantime you do have a functioning machine that actually still works. Once you ship it back for refund & return (or it fails completely), you better have 'plan B' already in motion......
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 2:07pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
I dont know what it would be like to buy a new machine and walk on egg shells for years and years waiting for the inevitable return to breville for a descale assuming it gets that far. Just buy another machine and be done with it. Whats your budget? CCS has the mini vivaldi which would suit your needs since you want a refillable water receptacle . Call Chris up and swing a deal with him. He will make you happy.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 6:28pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
dyqik Said:
A short detection circuit could be triggered by an undervoltage, depending on how the machine is configured - a shorted element would try to draw more current than the supply could handle, which would show up as a low voltage across the element. Obviously you can get the same effect by supplying a low voltage to the machine. The processor itself should be on a regulated DC supply that wouldn't be affected. So the ERR1 could be consistent with a supply undervoltage.
my readings do not indicate an undervoltage but of course it is not continuouse. Maybe there is a momentary undervoltage that happens now and again that is provoking the Err response. Could this machine just be sensitive or will I have the same issue on another machine??
Frost Said:
Well, you can be planning for 'plan B', but in the meantime you do have a functioning machine that actually still works. Once you ship it back for refund & return (or it fails completely), you better have 'plan B' already in motion......
I am going to sleep on it and get some supplier info tomorrow. I think I will be moving to plan B.
zedex Said:
I dont know what it would be like to buy a new machine and walk on egg shells for years and years waiting for the inevitable return to breville for a descale assuming it gets that far. Just buy another machine and be done with it. Whats your budget? CCS has the mini vivaldi which would suit your needs since you want a refillable water receptacle . Call Chris up and swing a deal with him. He will make you happy.
Chris is in the states, no free shipping, pain for warranty. Where did you get your machine? I see you are in BC. My likely source will be idrinkcoffee, unless there are some other canadian suggestions.
Any particular thoughts the new model machines coming out like the Dream, Duetto 3 or R58? I ask, but I am kind of gun shy to go with anything new with too much computer stuff...
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 8:25pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
I ordered from CCS. Had it shipped to Bettas In Washington. Picked it up and paid my fees at the Can/US border. Work out how much an 8 hour drive will cost you and that will be your shipping cost. Your warranty concerns are unfounded really. CCS has a very good warranty.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2012, 7:37am Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
zedex Said:
I ordered from CCS. Had it shipped to Bettas In Washington. Picked it up and paid my fees at the Can/US border. Work out how much an 8 hour drive will cost you and that will be your shipping cost. Your warranty concerns are unfounded really. CCS has a very good warranty.
How do they manage the warranty across the border or is it mostly a shipping issue? did you get the timer as well? or has a method been figured out to use a regular timer?
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2012, 8:14am Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
JohnLyn Said:
my readings do not indicate an undervoltage but of course it is not continuouse. Maybe there is a momentary undervoltage that happens now and again that is provoking the Err response. Could this machine just be sensitive or will I have the same issue on another machine??
An temporary undervoltage that coincides with the detection window in the machine's "brain" would trigger this - might even be too fast for a kill-a-watt to register. Most machines won't have a short detection circuit other than a fuse (which is triggered by excess current, not too low a voltage drop, and so wouldn't be a problem).
beerbaron Senior Member Joined: 2 Mar 2012 Posts: 3 Location: Markham Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2012, 9:42am Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
Hi,
I've been following this thread for a little while. I just thought of something though... Unfortunately it would cost you some money just to see if this is the problem. You could buy a UPS or a line conditioner? Those specifically correct for over and undervoltage issues. You should be guaranteed you have clean power at the output. Unfortunately you need a pretty beefy one to handle the load on the breville.
I don't know if theres a place anywhere you could rent one from... But if this does fix your problem it might not be a bad idea to get one of these anyways.
zedex Senior Member Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 126 Location: B.C Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz v2 Grinder: vario
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2012, 9:45am Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
JohnLyn Said:
How do they manage the warranty across the border or is it mostly a shipping issue? did you get the timer as well? or has a method been figured out to use a regular timer?
Chris threw the timer into the deal,a regular timer will not work. When i got my machine it was in January, the volumetric sensor had frozen and cracked so i had a small leak. Chris sent out a new sensor and i had it the next day. It came from NewYork to Penticton in 1 day. Unbelievable. Warranty would be all about shipping which wont be much more anyways so i'm not concerned. I have nothing but good to say about CCS. I ordered the v2 as i plumbed it in and am not into filling the water tank all the time. Been there done that. My drip tray is also plumbed in so its pretty great never having to drain the tray.V2 also has programmable preinfusion so that was a must for me as well. You were wondering about the "dream" machine. That machine will be nice but its all just software updates and you will not get any better results out of it. More money as well. CCS has lots of machines and they dont sell junk so anything you choose there will be good. If a Spaz is not for you, choose something else.
JohnLyn Senior Member Joined: 15 Aug 2011 Posts: 228 Location: Golden, BC, Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldy Grinder: Vario Drip: Bonavita Roaster: Toastess popper
Posted Tue Nov 6, 2012, 10:31pm Subject: Re: Swapping out the BDB
dyqik Said:
An temporary undervoltage that coincides with the detection window in the machine's "brain" would trigger this - might even be too fast for a kill-a-watt to register. Most machines won't have a short detection circuit other than a fuse (which is triggered by excess current, not too low a voltage drop, and so wouldn't be a problem).
I've been following this thread for a little while. I just thought of something though... Unfortunately it would cost you some money just to see if this is the problem. You could buy a UPS or a line conditioner? Those specifically correct for over and undervoltage issues. You should be guaranteed you have clean power at the output. Unfortunately you need a pretty beefy one to handle the load on the breville.
I don't know if theres a place anywhere you could rent one from... But if this does fix your problem it might not be a bad idea to get one of these anyways.
I think it may be hard to diagnose under-voltage, but the theory presented here could very well explain a sensitivity to trigger a response in a more sensitive system. Again, I would love to hear that from Breville otherwise it is still a theory. They have identified that something is triggered on a board related to the boiler. is it under-voltage that triggers it? That seems sensitive to me. I think I will hold out on this investment for now.
zedex Said:
Chris threw the timer into the deal,a regular timer will not work. When i got my machine it was in January, the volumetric sensor had frozen and cracked so i had a small leak. Chris sent out a new sensor and i had it the next day. It came from NewYork to Penticton in 1 day. Unbelievable. Warranty would be all about shipping which wont be much more anyways so i'm not concerned. I have nothing but good to say about CCS. I ordered the v2 as i plumbed it in and am not into filling the water tank all the time. Been there done that. My drip tray is also plumbed in so its pretty great never having to drain the tray.V2 also has programmable preinfusion so that was a must for me as well. You were wondering about the "dream" machine. That machine will be nice but its all just software updates and you will not get any better results out of it. More money as well. CCS has lots of machines and they dont sell junk so anything you choose there will be good. If a Spaz is not for you, choose something else.
Spaz is seeming interesting to me. Seems very reliable. 1 day shipping eh? that doesn't even happen within BC? It seems mostly about shipping parts whether it is new york or ontario. If the machine needs to be shipped for some reason then it does not matter where. I have come to like the perfusion. you have that then with the optional perfusion chamber? works well? I am going to be in Portland at the end of the month so I will be going to Clive coffee to play with some machines. Spaz is at the top of my list.
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