Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
need advice on a new machine
Home Espresso Machines
Watch videos with Gail & Kat, Rocket, Jura Capresso, Saeco, Rancilio, Quick Mill, Nespresso
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > need advice on a...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
Author Messages
kray
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 19
Location: St. Paul, MN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Junior HX
Grinder: Macap MX
Posted Wed Sep 26, 2012, 2:49pm
Subject: need advice on a new machine
 

After 20 bazillion shots of espresso, my nearly 20 year old Rancilio Silvia has died. While are many new machines on the market, due to the incredible longevity of old my Silvia, it is hard to not simply buy another Silvia. However I am also looking at a Pasquini Livietta T2. Please share your opinions. All advice is welcome.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 26, 2012, 3:48pm
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

are you looking to upgrade or stay at the same level and what about your grinder what do you have now?

how many drinks of what kind and how many of what kind at a time .

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
kray
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 19
Location: St. Paul, MN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Junior HX
Grinder: Macap MX
Posted Wed Sep 26, 2012, 4:11pm
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

Sure... the upgrade is in question. While i have thought (when entertaining) that it would be nice to be able to crank out multiple shots and steam milk with a double boiler machine. The reality is that over 95% of the time, I am making one latte (for my self) at a time (4 or 5 a day).

My grinder is a Gaggia MDF (burr grinder), and I am very comfortable adjusting grind to pull a good shot with a Silvia.

The attraction of another Silvia is I know how to use it, and my first lasted a long long time. The attraction of a double boiler machine is to froth and brew simultaneously.

I guess the question is...how much more do have to spend to get a double boiler machine with the build quality of a Silvia?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 12:39am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

I think it's fantastic that your machine lasted you as long as it has. Or that you've stuck with it that long.
A lot of the members on the list upgrade from it due to the wide temperature band and the hurry-up-and-wait to steam.
Some stick with it and PID them, but for the extra expense, it's better just to go to a heat exchanging machine anyway.

You do more volume than I do. I maybe make two drinks a day for myself and four or five if I have company over.

What is your budget for a replacement machine? Do you have space constraints? Can you plumb-in or do you need
a reservoir? Do you have a 20 amp capable 120 volt circuit?

A brand new Silvia is roughly around the $700 mark now. A lot of the members on the group mention that the Silvia
isn't all that great value for the money these days with other machines on the market competing directly against it.
Rancilio really needs to get off their butt and come out with a Breville Dual Boiler killer. I'd buy it in a second.

I will admit that the one thing I really liked about the Silvia was how much in the way of commercial grade parts it has
for the price they're asking for it. It's almost an anomaly in the consumer grade market for that price point, IMHO.

There's basically three classes of espresso machine.. Consumer, Prosumer and Commercial Grade. Unfortunately,
it seems to me that Rancilio kind of skipped the Prosumer class and went straight to commercial grade from their
consumer class. So, you go from a $700 Silvia to a $2100 Epoca. I wish Rancilio sold a prosumer machine which
closed that gap a bit. Rancilio's Epoca is 15" Wide, 22" Deep... that's too deep for my counters!

The biggest thing I've noticed between a commercial class machine and a prosumer machine is that a prosumer machine
will have a reservoir, but a commercial machine usually doesn't, they're plumb in only. Another thing is that there are a few
prosumer machines which can also do light commercial duty. Those you can usually tell by the fact they are switchable
between 15 amp and 20 amp operation.

For the amount of drinks you are making, a prosumer machine will be perfect for your needs and you'd probably last a week
before needing to fill up the reservoir on one of them. (Unless you really do want to go plumb-in!)

I think you should be looking at anywhere between the $2000 mark right up to the $2700 mark. There are a lot of prosumer
grade double boiler machines on the market in that price range. When you go past that, you're in commercial territory.

If you want a machine which is well built and you have room on the counter for it, I'd probably recommend something like
a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II. I was looking at buying one of these machines myself. They're great value for the money.
Unfortunately, I have 15" of width to work with and the machine is 16.5" wide, so it's off the table for me. (Literally)

If your budget permits for it, You could consider the Rocket R58, the Izzo Alex Duetto II, the Vibiemme Double Domobar,
The Expobar Brewtus IV or even the QuickMill QM67 as direct competitors to the La Spaziale.

If you want to consider a Heat Exchanging machine instead, there are a massive amount of different heat exchanging
machines on the market which are aimed at the Prosumer market. They start anywhere between the $1000 mark and go
up to the $2600 mark, depending on what you're looking for.

If you are making primarily milk drinks, you don't necessarily need the temperature stability of a dual boiler. If budget
isn't a concern, then yeah.. go Double Boiler. :-)

Good luck!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 12:57am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

As an afterthought...

Nuova Simonelli's "Home" machine is the Nuova Simonelli Oscar. They typically sell for about $1400.

That was Nuova Simonelli's idea of what a home machine should be, in stark contrast with the Rancilio Silvia.

It is a small heat exchanging machine which would be perfect for the volume of drinks you are doing. The only thing I don't
like about it is the all plastic case which it has, but that's more of a cosmetic thing.

If you want something with a gauge(s) and stainless steel, Bezzera has a huge wide line of prosumer machines, ranging from
the $900 mark all the way up to the $1600 mark. They're unique in this way. They have a unique brew group on their lower
end machines which electrically heats the brew group instead of using a Thermosiphoning E61.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
kray
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 19
Location: St. Paul, MN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Junior HX
Grinder: Macap MX
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 5:13am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

Thanks for all the thoughts qualin. I appreciate it. Your questions are good ones. Here is some additional information. Size is a concern (I had not thought of that!). I have a small kitchen with limited counter space, and to be honest, I struggle to find counter space for the Silvia and grinder. I would not want to go much larger. I also have to admit, that I like the pro class components that go into the Silvia. Also, budget... there's always that. I cant justify a $2000 machine. That being said... is there something out there of smaller size, Silvia style build quality, that has the capacity to pull shots and steam simultaneously, that I should be looking at?

Is there such a thing as a $1000 - $1500 prosumer machine? (HX?)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
kray
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Sep 2012
Posts: 19
Location: St. Paul, MN
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Vibiemme Junior HX
Grinder: Macap MX
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 5:15am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

Or... what do people think of the quick mill silviano?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 5:38am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

If you look at my "upgraditis strikes - narrow machine for ~$1500" thread, you'll see people suggesting the Nuova Simonelli Oscar ($1050 HX machine), the Vibiemme Junior HX ($1369) or the Expobar Lever Plus ($1127).  You're firmly in small prosumer HX territory in that price range.  A search of a certain well known auction site will find you a refurb or s/h Oscar for a bit less than $1000.

I believe a Silvano or CC1 would also fit at the cheaper, slightly less capable end of things (single boiler, with separate thermo-block), and would leave you some over out of $1000 to try a new or secondhand more adjustable grinder ;)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 7:11am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

hi I am dictating from my car so please forgive any punctuation errors.
a double boiler machine is not superior to a heat exchanger machine whole Foods can produce outstanding qualities espresso and easier than your Sylvia.
I really think you are firmly in the heat exchanger category. the difference between heat exchanger and double boiler is in method of operation not quality of drinks.
yes sylvia is built solid but I think you will find that all semi commercial machines are built at least as solidly if not strong.
I know it has been said before in this thread but the Oscar is a great heat exchanger machine that I think will fit your budget and space.
without slight modifications it can not be set on a timer but that is an easy mod to do all you need to do is to add a vacuum breaker to the main line and you are good to go.
once you get out of the single boiler tool use machines you have a much higher capacity to entertain with and the shops are easier to be more consistent.
eventually you will want to upgrade your Grindr as it is good enough for the Sylvia it will be holding you back with the Oscar.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,499
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Sep 27, 2012, 7:14am
Subject: Re: need advice on a new machine
 

wow the speech to text editor really made a hash of that please try to read between the lines

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > need advice on a...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Quick Mill Back in Stock
All Quick Mill Machine ready to ship. Free Ship. Silvano, Anita, Alexia, 2B, Andreja, QM67, Monza!
cupandbrew.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.436236143112)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+