Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 475 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 5:25am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
We definitely need some more Simonelli love on this forum. The Musica is an amazing machine, very much like their professional Appia Single Group, but with some extra features. If it were me choosing, I would definitely lean toward the Musica, though I've seen the Rockets in person and they are really nice.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,372 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:03pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
I think you would not go wrong with either. But I would lean towards the one you can get serviced locally. And I have an NS and I am pleased with it's build quality.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
AMubaslat Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2012 Posts: 16 Location: The World Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo Drip: Bosch
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 2:42am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
I am in negotiation with the local distributor of NS, and believe he will be giving an interesting quote.
However, last night I was reading about the HX-driven machines need for cool flushing to adjust the brewing temp. It was kind of let down for me. I find it quite annoying to have to cool flush prior to pulling my shot. This implies that lot of water will be lost, and I'll have to empty the drip-tray more and more often.
I am presuming the Double Boiler machines require no flushing, and that it'll be ready to go anytime no matter how long it was sitting idle. Am I right here?
For the fellows using HX machines, are you annoyed by having to cool flush before pulling your espresso shot? Or with time, this becomes a habit and you even forget that you do it.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,661 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 5:26am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
Flushing isn't really cumbersome, and you only need to do it when you left the machine idling for more than five minutes, but not when you pull several consecutive shots, for example. It really becomes second nature after a while. It also gives you the opportunity to toy with different brewing temperatures without having to wait for you DB to reach thermal equlibrium after changing boiler settings. Besides, DB machines may require flushing as well, at least with an E61 brew group, because it tends to get too cool.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
floydo Senior Member Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 23 Location: Seattle Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Pid Silvia, La Pavoni, Alex... Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 8:50am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
AMubaslat Said:
I am in negotiation with the local distributor of NS, and believe he will be giving an interesting quote.
However, last night I was reading about the HX-driven machines need for cool flushing to adjust the brewing temp. It was kind of let down for me. I find it quite annoying to have to cool flush prior to pulling my shot. This implies that lot of water will be lost, and I'll have to empty the drip-tray more and more often.
I am presuming the Double Boiler machines require no flushing, and that it'll be ready to go anytime no matter how long it was sitting idle. Am I right here?
For the fellows using HX machines, are you annoyed by having to cool flush before pulling your espresso shot? Or with time, this becomes a habit and you even forget that you do it.
The drawback of HX machines is use of lots of water (flushing) to bring the temps back to the 201F range. Read about the machines and this becomes apparent. DB E61 machines require a flush, but it is about an Oz or 1 shot. The head is heated by brew temp water vs steam tank water. So refilling is less often. DBs with a PID are closer to plug and play, but HX can pull the same quality shot with some learning......
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,661 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:02am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
floydo Said:
The drawback of HX machines is use of lots of water (flushing) to bring the temps back to the 201F range. Read about the machines and this becomes apparent. DB E61 machines require a flush, but it is about an Oz or 1 shot. The head is heated by brew temp water vs steam tank water ...
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:06am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
Every machine requires flushing. HX machines to flush the superheated water from the HX tube, DB machines to make sure the group head is up to temperature and on both to purge grounds and oils from the screen. Depending on how frequently you're making a shot, flushes can be very minimal - on the order of 40-60cc of water. If you flush into your cups to preheat them, the water's not wasted.
If my NS Ellimatic HX has been idle for 15 minutes or more, it's about a 170cc cooling flush, which I use to preheat the cup(s) and make sure the basket and pf are at temp. Under 5 minutes of idle time, a 2 second flush to clear the screen is all that's needed.
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:07am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
I considered both of these machines when I made my purchase a few weeks ago. The NS is a nice machine, but the cost seems inflated based on its commercial rating, and fancy lights, the Rocket is a beauty, and if a rotary pump is important to you Id go that route.
Other options you should consider
The Expobar Brewtus iv, I bought this machine after looking at all of the machines you listed and I am about to, I think it has the most bang for its cost, dual boiler, e61, PID, availible rotary pump. Definitely well suited for 10-15 shots a day, and I like the semi-manual operation. I paired it with a quamar m80e grinder, the 4pack steam tips from rocket, and bottomless PF (rocket) that just really make the machine great. It is much cheaper than the other options here, and with 2 1.7L copper boilers, this macine is a beast.
The Alexia Duetto II/III, a great dual boiler, looks amazing, has a pretty big following. version 3 has just come out, give it a look over at clive. I didnt buy this purely on price and its PF sits lower preventing certain cups from easily being placed under it (an insane thing to worry about).
Best of luck,
Remember to buy what you can use, not what you can afford!
Anthony C
Currently pulling: Social Coffee Inc. -El Socorro Palo Blanco Espresso
I somewhat agree as far as the price is concerned, but the R58 is equally expensive and I think that local support is of priceless value in the long run.
GVDub Said:
... If you flush into your cups to preheat them, the water's not wasted ...
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