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Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Stupid Question?...  
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Markarian
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 4:19am
Subject: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

Okay, so here's the deal. I've gone HX and will never go back to an SBDU, so this I'm not personally invested in this per se. But can someone explain to me why the Silvia is so wildly popular, even though it looks like it requires a clunky PID box to be usable and then costs MORE than the CC1, which has it built in? Also, the CC1 has a thermoblock, which I'm assuming the Silvia does not. I'm NOT trying to start a flame war or dis the Silvia, but I keep seeing that machine recommended over and over and over as a starter machine on this forum when it seems like there's better options in the same price range. Thoughts?
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calblacksmith
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 5:54am
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

WARNING, PERSONAL OPINION FOLLOWS

I think it has to do with the fact that for a LONG time Sylvia was the best and best priced for value SBDU on the market. This opinion has become engrained but is not true anymore. There are better priced SBDU machines on the market that offer similar build quality and functions. It is kind of like many years ago when personal computers were waring with each other for market share, there was a saying that went something like this from IT departments at the time, " No one ever got fired for buying an IBM", the reasoning behind the statement was there are a lot of machines and operating systems vying for market and the SAFE bet was IBM.

The CC1 is pretty new to the market in the over all view of things and though it offers many advantages over the Sylvia, the old bias still lingers in the form of glowing reviews from years ago, in quantity about the Sylvia and there are not near so many positive reviews about other machines except for places like here where we actively look at new tech, yet there still remains a lot of positive reviews for Sylvia here and not so much about other machines due to the long time that Sylvia has been on the market.

YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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scanfield
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 7:11am
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

Stay tuned! The CC1 roadtrip reviews will be posted sometime in 2013 or 2014. For sure no later than the end of 2015.
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NobbyR
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 1:55pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

The overall positive impression people have of the Silvia still originates from the time when it was one of the best SBDUs on the market. It's still a rock solid machine, but unfortunately it hasn't really evolved much. Other machines like the CC1 now offer more advanced features like volumetric dosing, ex factory PID or programmable pre-infusion for the same price range. Their disadvantage is that they haven't been around as long as the Silvia, so they haven't had the opportunity yet to build a reputation like that. However, I'm pretty sure that'll change within the next years.

It's time for Rancilio to really move on with the Silvia.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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qualin
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 9:58pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

I think one of the big factors behind why the Silvia is so popular is because EVERYONE sells these things. I've seen them being sold in Coffee Shops, coffee equipment suppliers, you name it..

Since they are so readily available, it's only natural that people will consider buying one as their first machine.

Also consider that retailers also usually bundle the Rocky and Silvia together as a bundle with a small discount and even sell a shelf for them.

Reading on this site, the Silvia has the most amount of reviews of any espresso machine on the market, their longevity is incredible (From what I've read) and my own personal experience
is that this is a machine which is built rock solid. Everything about it, to me, seems like it was very well made.

Of course, I can see a lot of engineering shortcomings. For example, it was the only appliance I've purchased within the last 20 years that didn't have any electronics in it. None. It's all
electromechanical. Using multiple thermostats instead of a PID for example. The switches on the front almost resemble crude logic gates, but they're very reliable.

I think that if Rancilio wants to stay competitive, they need to take a good hard long look at Lelit's product line and use that as a starting point. As well, they also need to develop a machine
which is somewhere inbetween the Silvia and the Epoca. A new Silvia sells for about $700 here, but a new Epoca is a smidgen over $2000. That's too much of a price gap. I think they could
probably benefit by introducing a smaller HX machine with a vibe pump and a reservoir which would be kitchen friendly, selling for somewhere between the $1200-$1600 mark..

Just IMHO though.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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coffee_no_sugar
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Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:24pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

calblacksmith Said:

I think it has to do with the fact that for a LONG time Sylvia was the best and best priced for value SBDU on the market.

Posted November 8, 2012 link

The Sylvia was never the best SBDU on the market even when it first came out.   There were other machines that were better but the Silvia had the looks (stainless steel was getting popular) and a good price in the US.  A few leaders went to the Silva, and the people followed like lemmings.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
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Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 5:29am
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

I did not say it was the best period, I said it was the best price for value, check it out in the quote from me you posted. Also, please note this was before the price hikes that pushed it into the NOT value for the money ranks.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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coffee_no_sugar
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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 5:46pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

Best price for value?   The big problem with the stock Silvia is its cheap bimetallic thermostats.  In the late 80's you were able to get SDBUs with 300 ml boilers and capillary thermostats for maybe $100 more than the Silvia in the US and a similar price to the Silvia in Europe. In the early 90s, you were able get a SBDU with an electronic temperature controller.  Not sure of the price when new but I would guess $240 more than the Silvia.  ($50 for the temperature controller + $10 for a better boiler) X 4 (for profit).  Given the improved performance from replacing the bimetallic thermostats, I would say "best price for value" didn't belong to the Silvia.
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jwoodyu
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Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

scanfield Said:

Stay tuned! The CC1 roadtrip reviews will be posted sometime in 2013 or 2014. For sure no later than the end of 2015.

Posted November 8, 2012 link

That did not take long. ;0)

I have not used a Silvia so i can only give you the CC1 half the story. For what is worth I think the CC1 does better for milk based drinks than it does for straight shots. Those folks in the market for or just coming out of a super auto right in the CC1's "wheelhouse".  

YMMV

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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Markarian
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Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

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Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Nov 9, 2012, 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Stupid Question? Silvia vs. Crossland CC1
 

This is a lot of really interesting insight, kind of shows how an old standard can entrench itself for a long time. When I got into coffee six short months ago, I honestly thought the Silvia was overpriced, and I still do. When one can buy a CC1 for the same price, a Saeco for less than a third, or a Cuadra or Oscar for $250 more, it really seems like the Silvia doesn't really have a spot anymore. Then there's the Gaggias, which cost less than half. It seems to me the Silvia is a good machine that's just been way undercut and needs to be repriced or redesigned to stay competitive.
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