toyman Senior Member Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 25 Location: PA Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Delonghi EC155, Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso on the way Drip: Cuisinart
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 8:14am Subject: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
It's been a week of ups and semi-downs. I've pulled some fantastic shots from the Classic, and some so-so shots. The milk based drinks I've made for the family have been fantastic, according to them. Anyway, I pull a double every morning for my caffiene fix. When I get up, I fill the reservior and turn on the machine to heat up, then I get to my morning routine. After 20-30 minutes, I'm ready for my espresso. My process is this: Fresh roasted beans from a local shop. I keep the beans in an airtight container in the freezer. I weight out 16 grams of beans, seal the container and replace to the freezer. 16 grams into the preciso, and grind until done. Put my shotglass(s) under the empty PF and fill with hot water to warm. Pull the PF and dry. Pour the grinds into the warm PF, level and tamp. (included tamper) I go around the edge and then give a decent tamp in the center. I then dispense of some water without the PF attached, then attach the PF, and wait for the light to come back on. Once it comes on I hit my timer and pull my shots. Getting decent pours in 25-30 seconds with a decent amount of crema, I'll estimate 60/40 espresso to crema. The pours look similar to what I've seen on utube with coloration etc. I've landed on 8 and 6 o'clock on the preciso. Now, some of the shots have been incredible. The last two (last night and this am), have been a bit sour. I'm not sure if I'm surfing the temps too low? I'm going to try to dispense less water prior to attaching the PF.
Second. I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but.....the double PF basket should dispense 2 - 2.5 TOTAL OUNCES in 25-30 seconds? I ask, because I bought a package of shot glasses (clear so I could judge the crema) that are 2.5 ounces each. If I put 2 of those under the PF, they should only be filled 1/2 way in 25 to 30 seconds or I will be over extracting the 16 grams, correct? Currently, I'm pulling approximately 2.5 ounces total from a double PF basket.
Thanks for the help, this site is excellent unless you have OCD like I do!
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 9:13am Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
I never bothered pouring water before locking in the PF on my Gaggia - there's no group cooling flush required on a single boiler unit, and temperature surfing is a little more accurate if the boiler is undisturbed, rather than just after drawing in cool water (you are watching the boiler casing temperature with the light, not the water temperature, as the thermostat is on the outside of the unit). The boiler casing should be at it's hottest just after the light turns on, but the water will lag that a little (maybe 30s?). Try starting at 30s after the light, without the pulling any water through without the PF, and you should be near the maximum temperature. If you pull some water through, the water in the boiler might be too cool.
On the second point, I think that's 2-2.5 oz of liquid, plus crema. Including the crema at 60/40 ratio would be closer to a ristretto. But go on taste :) Since you are updosing a little to 16g, you may be able to go a little long as well. It's best to watch for blonding in the stream of coffee/crema (when the stream turns lighter and a little less viscous), rather than going on absolute time. If you are getting plenty of crema, it shouldn't be so hard to spot.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,633 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 9:30am Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
Congrats! The drink volume is a TOTAL VOLUME of 2 oz in 25 to 30 seconds from 14 to 18 g of coffee. As above though, play with things and go by taste.
Freezing beans is fine but DO NOT open and close the same bag over and over. Freeze in lots that you will use in a day or two, let thaw BEFORE OPENING then use as normal. If you use the same bag, you will be letting moisture into the bag, it will then condense on the still frozen beans and start spoiling them. If you let them thaw before opening the bag, the moisture will condense on the outside of the bag and not on the beans.
HEY, if we ALL didn't have OCD, we would not be here!
It is not hard to get better results than the corner "coffee shop" and once you are used to better, it is hard if not impossible to go back, ENJOY!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
toyman Senior Member Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 25 Location: PA Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Delonghi EC155, Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso on the way Drip: Cuisinart
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 10:50am Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
I've been hopped up on caffeine for a week now!!! Pulled another double at lunch today. I only dispensed a small amount of water without the PF to ensure that it didn't steam. I did tighten up the grind two notches on the micro adjust and tamped a hair firmer. Pulled about 2 oz in 28 seconds, although, I'm going to have to work on watching the blonding. The shot was pretty good, but this time a little bitter. I think my beans may be losing their luster :( The crema is ok, but not as prevalent as it was this weekend. I did freeze in a single, air tight container, and only have the container out as long as it takes to get the beans out. I'll keep at it, it's a lot of fun. Oh, and it only took me 1.7 seconds to type this response!
D4F Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2012 Posts: 1,187 Location: USA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID Grinder: Preciso
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 12:00pm Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
I also use a Gaggia Classic and Preciso. I freeze beans because I buy in 5 lb lots, Redbird. I freeze then in glass jars usually when they arrive, so they are only about 3 days post roast. I fill the jars to where the lid is difficult to get on. I do not have a jar vacuum. I leave the jars in the freezer until I am ready to use and then remove the jar and leave it sealed until the thawed and any condensation is done. A frozen object, jar or inside of jar, or the beans will get condensation while frozen. Every time you open the jar, you let moisture and air in, somewhat negating the object of freezing. My summary from reading about freezing. I have kept jars for a couple months and you can hear the air exit as the jars are opened, trapped gas off.
I can get about 17.5 gms of Redbird in a double basket and just see a center screen screw indent when the puck is wet.
I do not think that you gain when flushing a Gaggia SBDU machine. The boilers are about 3.5 oz and an open pump runs about 10cc/sec, so 1 second flush gives you about 1/3 of your boiler water cold. The whole boiler, group and machine mass are warm already so you are not just dealing with water, but you still have to heat that cold flush. Dyqik has given a good surfing summary. I use and suggest a PID, thought not necessary. You need to measure your brew water temperature if you are having problems or questions. The simplest way is with an instant digital thermometer and Styrofoam cup. It will give a decent estimate if you are careful and preheat everything.
I use a 4 oz shot glass for a double. I get about 3+ oz of mostly crema, with little liquid, in 25 seconds. I get some variation on the amount of liquid to crema with different beans and ages of beans, but an approximation. If I let that settle, I get about 50 ml. Weight is the proper way to measure, but I have done fluid volume of about 50 ml after the crema settles. I do not let the crema settle when I plan to drink the shot, but I did that to find my 25 sec volume. I tried about 60 – 70 ml/25 sec starting off and found that the espresso was better at about 45 – 50 ml.
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 1:27pm Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
Every time you open that bag, you're letting in air and moisture and speeding spoilage. Much better to freeze in smaller airtight bags or jars that are one to two days of usage, then take one out the night before you need it and let thaw undisturbed in the package.
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 3:01pm Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
I have the same general setup - though my Classic as a PID and the OPV has been adjusted.
Here's a few thoughts.
1) As others have said - change your freezer routine. Your beans should FULLY thaw in the airtight container. I freeze half pound increments which are enough to fill the hopper and last a few days. When I need to refill my hopper, I pull beans from the freezer the night before and leave them in their airtight container until morning.
2) Don't pull ANY water prior to your shot. The Gaggia's boiler is already to small, you're making it effectively smaller.
3) Because of the Gaggia's small boiler, the water temps hitting the pump are gradually dropping during the entire shot. They aren't stable. The Auber PID documentation shows a good graph on this. Some feel that by pulling slightly smaller shots with the Gaggia, you improve the shots as that final 1/4oz with too low temps is avoided. I aim for 1 3/4oz in 25 secs. The poster above noting that 45-50 ml shots are better than 60-70ml is describing the same thing.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,604 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 3:07pm Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
Espresso quality depends on so many interacting factors, that tiny changes in dose, distribution, tamping or brewing temperature, for example to name but a few, can make a difference in taste. It's very hard to learn to work really consistently in order to achieve repeatable results. And even after many years of practice shots will occur that taste just godawful. Don't let that discourage you. Just pull another one.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
dorkroast Senior Member Joined: 3 Oct 2012 Posts: 78 Location: CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Popcorn Pumper
Posted Thu Nov 8, 2012, 9:10pm Subject: Re: First week with Gaggia Classic/Baratza Preciso
Glad to hear you're having good luck with your Gaggia!
One thing I just recently did to improve my Gaggia was buy an actual tamper. The POS plastic tamper they supply with the Classic is an abomination that must be destroyed. I didn't realize how bad it was until I bought an actual tamper that fits the portafilter. My tamping is now more consistent and actually easier now that the tamper can't cock sideways in the portafilter.
Keep us informed, I learned from the comments that were posted in this thread. I'm hoping I can improve my Gaggia espresso shots through your misfortune. :)
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