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Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Need Help:: NS...  
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,048
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:56am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

My understanding the hot water tap makes it easier.  I could be wrong....

 
Coffeenoobie

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qualin
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qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 1:10am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

AMubaslat Said:

How does the Le Spaziale Mini Vivaldi measure compared to the R58 and Musica?

Posted November 10, 2012 link

Well, the Mini Vivaldi is a reservoir-only vibe pump machine. Whereas the R58 is rotary pump and switchable. The Musica also is vibe pump and reservoir.

The Mini Vivaldi is unique in that it has a 53mm portafilter instead of a 58mm portafilter, which is industry standard. If you haven't invested a lot in accessories, it's not a big deal.
Supposedly, La Spaziale says that the smaller portafilter reduces channeling, hence the reason why they decided to use it.

These machines have lots of very favorable reviews. I was going to buy one myself until I found it that it won't fit in the spot in my kitchen where the coffee machine is supposed to go.

AMubaslat Said:

(no pre-infusion though).

Posted November 10, 2012 link

There is an add-on which can let you do pre-infusion with the Mini Vivaldi.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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JPF
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 223
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium...
Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected...
Vac Pot: Yama Siphon
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 5:41am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

AMubaslat Said:

How does the Le Spaziale Mini Vivaldi measure compared to the R58 and Musica?

Posted November 10, 2012 link

Can't comment on how it measures up to the others, but I'm a very happy Mini Vivaldi owner.  It's not a true PID, but if you look at this video, you can see the temperature is rock stable.  There's a huge group of happy customers in the US as well as a dedicated user site www.s1cafe.com.  It's a very reliable light commercial duty machine, the tank is removed from the front of the machine(which is very nice), and it has a large drip tray.

I have the pre-infusion chamber, but I've heard it's not really necessary since the vibe pump creates it's own preinfusion-like pressure ramp up.  Also can't comment on the 53mm group compared to 58mm because my previous machine was was a Europiccola.  I make great espresso though.  Only problem I see with the 53mm group is the double can only handle about 16g if you're into updosing.  You would need a triple basket and bottomless portafilter to dose higher.  I have the triple and can go 21g.  Haven't tried more.  I typically like a 15g double, unless the coffee really requires a higher dose.  I love it because it really is a great "walk up and pull a shot machine".  If you haven't used it, you need a 2 oz flush to make sure the group is up to temp.  One big downside is if you want a timer, you must use the Vivaldi integrated timer for an extra $200.  I tend to leave the machine on, so it's not an issue for me.  As with most DBs, you can turn off the steam boiler to save power and wear and tear.

Don't remember if you can plumb or not, but the Vivalid is the same machine with rotary pump and programmable line pre-infusion (but you must plumb).  It also has a larger steam boiler because there's no tank, but there's no discernable difference in steam between the two.  There's plenty of it.  Take a look at this comparison by Chris Coffee.

JF

 
Living the caffeinated life.
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AMubaslat
Senior Member


Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Posts: 20
Location: The World
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo
Drip: Bosch
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 8:31am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Thank you very much JPF. The mini Vivaldi looks like the machine to go for. I'm quite relived with the little amount of water required for the flushing, and the fact that it is temp controllable.

One question though, how do you rate it's reliability? Have you faced any of those issues that made you question it's reliability?

Looks like it'll boil down to either the Musica or the Mini Vivaldi, given the opinions of GCG fellows and the presence of local support.
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acasabia
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acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 624
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
Vac Pot: Yama Vacpot, Aeropress,
Drip: french press
Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

GVDub Said:

Anthony - It's a very long way from Dubai, where the OP has stated he lives, to any of the dealers and repair sites you mention. Shipping back and forth would be a substantial fraction of the value of the machine.

Posted November 9, 2012 link

Oh, I did not catch that hahaha.

AMubaslat Said:

I have been using a fully automatic bean-to-cup for the past 3 years, and it was quite alright. That machine delivered above average quality of espresso, while, milk steaming (being an automatic with no steam wand) was horrible.

Having decided to upgrade, I wanted a machine that is closer to commercial than it is to home/persona and hence my investigating the above machines.

How does the Le Spaziale Mini Vivaldi measure compared to the R58 and Musica? It looks to be a hybrid of both; DB, Auto Dosing, regulation of brew temp (no pre-infusion though). The interesting part is that they have a local dealership with technical support arm.

Thank you,
- Ammar

Posted November 10, 2012 link

I see your point, I would still say to look into Expobar, the Brewtus is known by different names in different countries, for example the minore, or cafe leva. The vibration pump is cheaper to replace and easier as well, while its noisier, Id say it's worth it over the hassle of a busted rotary pump. It comes as reservoir only, reservoir and plumb, and plumb only (with rotary pump).  

I like the spaziale's design and look, but I don't think its as user serviceable as the other machines. Though if they have a local dealer you may be better off with them. Some of these machines are substantially more than 40lbs so your location with make this more difficult if something serious occurs. Truthfully though, you should familiarize yourself with the internals of these machines a bit more before making the investment. Knowing not only the basic maintenance, but also how to correct bigger problems will save you a lot of hassle.

 
Anthony C

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JPF
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Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 223
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium...
Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected...
Vac Pot: Yama Siphon
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 9:46am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

AMubaslat Said:

Thank you very much JPF. The mini Vivaldi looks like the machine to go for. I'm quite relived with the little amount of water required for the flushing, and the fact that it is temp controllable.

One question though, how do you rate it's reliability? Have you faced any of those issues that made you question it's reliability?

Looks like it'll boil down to either the Musica or the Mini Vivaldi, given the opinions of GCG fellows and the presence of local support.

Posted November 10, 2012 link

It was the R58 that I had read some others concerns about.  I wanted the Vivaldi because of it's record of reliability.  I bought it used locally from someone who was upgrading to a GS3, and he wasn't sure he should even upgrade because he was so happy.  It's two years old in total, I have had it for a year, and have had no problems.

John

 
Living the caffeinated life.
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,057
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sat Nov 10, 2012, 11:13am
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

My understanding the hot water tap makes it easier.  I could be wrong....

Posted November 10, 2012 link

Definitely yes, it does.

AMubaslat Said:

I am actually residing in Kuwait. So yeah, having a 40+ lb machine shipped back and forth is not going to be effective ...

Posted November 10, 2012 link

Which is why local support is irreplacable.

 
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"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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Koifla
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Koifla
Joined: 1 Mar 2011
Posts: 65
Location: Miami
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia with Watslow...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: w
Posted Sun Nov 11, 2012, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Hi
I have not seen much talk or reviews here on the Musica or much on Nuova Simonelli. It was interesting to see this now. I just got the Musica 2 days ago. Why? I don't think anyone else has it? Looked at all the machines in its class or price range and saw very little about the Musica. Saw lots of detailed info and opinions on all the others. It is a hard choice and I am sure none are bad. I based my choice on I can watch champion barista's using this machine(s) on shows and in comps. If I can't make a nice drink on it I can blame me. Also it looks nice, very unique. The others all look kind of the same with kind of the same parts. I know that may not be an accurate statement but just an off opinion. It's kind of nice to have a machine that does not need pid to maintain temps and Nuova Simonelli look like they have engineered stuff that works.
I have not used it enough to give much of an opinion except what took 3 min to do on my silvia takes about 30 sec. I used some illy and my own roast to taste test and the musica seems to deliver a fuller flavor. I think I saw in one comparison test on SCG they noticed the same thing where the Musica brought out more taste. I need to get a feel for changing from a single hole wand on the silvia with a knob to the four hole all on lever. The Musica gives me about 30 sec if that to stretch before the milk is up to temp.  
The volumetrics may need to be programmed better but I try them. I like the single shot button as a flush. Give it a shot before I load the PF. Don't judge my shots or pics yet I am not use to the machine yet but getting there but I post a pic

Koifla: Barista Bar.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Koifla
Senior Member
Koifla
Joined: 1 Mar 2011
Posts: 65
Location: Miami
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia with Watslow...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: w
Posted Sun Nov 11, 2012, 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

Shameless pic

Koifla: Musica5.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Koifla
Senior Member
Koifla
Joined: 1 Mar 2011
Posts: 65
Location: Miami
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia with Watslow...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: w
Posted Sun Nov 11, 2012, 8:04pm
Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
 

pic

Koifla: Musica7.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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