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Quick Question: Timing Shots?
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Markarian
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Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:10pm
Subject: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

Okay, here's a very quick newb question:

WHEN do you begin timing the shot? Is it from when you start the pump, or when the pour begins? I read someone said that when the first drop falls, you start timing. That would seem to make sense as I generally get a really decent cup if I get 60ml in between 25-32 secs of extraction time using that method. Am I doing it right? If it's from when the pump starts, there's a good 5-10 seconds of ramp up time before the coffee begins to come out. I'm slightly confused, but assuming I'm doing it correctly. I'm fully anticipating widely varying schools of thought on this one too ;-)
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frank828
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Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Posted Sat Nov 17, 2012, 11:52pm
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

i time from the moment i turn the pump on.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 12:16am
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

me too but really it just matters that you do it the same way so you can repeat it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 1:30am
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

Wow, that's a huge difference. Maybe the shots that I thought were underextracted because of timing were just right? Some of them certainly looked (and tasted) okay.
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:54am
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

This is what I do.  I stop at blonding no matter what the timer says.  I had a lot of trouble telling when that was because color changes a lot and I am very good with colors.  But when I saw the video of the naked pour and they talked about the stream getting thin and watery (I think he said umbrella collapsing) I can see that with much more assurance than I could say for sure this is blonde.  My shots are much better since I stopped using color and started looking at the stream at the naked filter.  I use the timer to help me fine tune the grind but I am watching the pour not the clock.  My shots were still good when I used color, they are just better now.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,157
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 6:59pm
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

This is what I do.  I stop at blonding no matter what the timer says.  I had a lot of trouble telling when that was because color changes a lot and I am very good with colors.  But when I saw the video of the naked pour and they talked about the stream getting thin and watery (I think he said umbrella collapsing) I can see that with much more assurance than I could say for sure this is blonde.  My shots are much better since I stopped using color and started looking at the stream at the naked filter.  I use the timer to help me fine tune the grind but I am watching the pour not the clock.  My shots were still good when I used color, they are just better now.

Posted November 18, 2012 link

This is essentially how I operate as well. On the Red Bird site, they say shoot for 28-30 seconds from first drip. You are right people will give varying opinions - mainly either from pump trigger or first drip, but I agree with Helen...1) focus on how it tastes; 2) do it the same each time; 3) use you timer to help adjust your grind, but run your extractions based on the stream

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Nov 18, 2012, 9:11pm
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

The deal is this is food.  No one cares if you are 17 seconds or 46 seconds they care how it tastes and if you can make it again.  I make espresso like I cook, I look at a bunch of recipes, try a lot of different things and then just do what I like the best.  What I end up doing is often a distillation of all the stuff I tried/read/saw on TV.  I edit out what I don't like, change some stuff and keep what I do like. And I have a method that makes it repeatable.

I think I am making really great espresso.  Who knows for sure?  I know I like it, the husband likes it and I don't have any other people I have to please.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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JPF
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Joined: 3 Jun 2010
Posts: 223
Location: NJ
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Mini Vivaldi, Pre-millenium...
Grinder: Dosered SJ, Resurrected...
Vac Pot: Yama Siphon
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: Behmor, Poppery I
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 6:49am
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

I've actually gone the completely opposite direction.  I extract my shots based on the correct flow/time, and final extraction ratio and am pretty happy with the results.  I typically like in the 70% range.  Not trying to convert anyone, but take a look at Digital Espresso and Why Should I Care About Blonding?

 
Living the caffeinated life.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 1:49pm
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

I did that for a while but I have since streamed lined my process.  I still believe whatever way you do it just make sure you can repeat it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Nov 19, 2012, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Quick Question: Timing Shots?
 

Noobie, you're once again a source of inspiration, both in attitude and advice. I ran into a thread of yours from the beginning of the year and an accompanying video, describing the pump pressure varying significantly during shots. Until I saw your thread, I just thought it was a quirk of how Oscar was supposed to work. After seeing the thread, I immediately drove down to Simonelli before they shut their shop down early and picked up a new pump.  The results have been nothing short of dramatic and I can finally get consistent shots, so thank you :)

I'm curious, what do you dose for double shots? I do 18.5 grams in the stock NS double basket, using a naked PF. Do you tamp light or firm? I've started timing my shots from pressing the button instead of from the first drip. Now I've been getting that nice, elegant crema cone and even some tiger striping.
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