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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New to Coffee  
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 9:11pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

As I said previously, most of the people here are willing to take the time to make good great coffee, be it espresso, drip, syphon, etc.  Thus, my comment about being "far away" from what most people here focus upon.  I stand by that comment.  That said, no one is going to ban you, and you aren't being bullied, either.  But I personally still see no problem in getting up five minutes earlier -- hey! you'd have the bathroom to yourself!

Posted December 2, 2012 link

I'm up as early as I can be up and not die, lol. That sounds extreme, but at this point I'm burning that candle well enough at both ends to be passing out in the middle of things at night. Hey, I know its text, but I felt like the post was... aggressive. Juts how it felt to me.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Depending upon the size of a machine's boiler, it can take anywhere from 30-90 minutes to reach a point of thermal stability.  This is VERY different than simply getting the water in the boiler up to temperature.  This is why most of us do put our machines on timers (to kick on, say, an hour before we get up in the morning), or we leave them on24/7.  That way, all we have to do is grind the beans and pull the shot.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

No safety/fire hazard here? If not I see no issue with that.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

That said, when I was in college and had an SBDU machine, and never had groups like this to ask questions of, I'd get up, go into the kitchen, switch on the machine, go shower, and by the time I was out of the shower, I could make my espresso/cappuccino/latte/whatever . . .

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Haha, if I had to shower in the morning I'd really be in trouble. I do it at night, but I get what your saying.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Actually, I think it's better, even though neither one is "great." I prefer to find a Nespresso in my hotel room than Starbucks around the corner or in te lobby.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

BUT, your saying there is a conceivable outcome where a shot could be pulled and maybe something like an aeroccino that could be equal in time.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

That said, have you considered a moka pot?  That might be an option, and it's a less costly one.  Unless you get a great deal off craigslist or eBay, I cannot imagine being able to get a decent (not great, not good -- decent) machine AND a grinder for $199-250 . . .

Posted December 2, 2012 link

No but I am looking it up due to the earlier post! Doubtful on the craigslist here... Our craigslist is pretty skimpy but I could keep my eye on ebay or just bite the cost.
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 9:13pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

I still think you would be better off with something you can do ahead like cold brewed with everything you talk about in you have going on morning.  You should at least try my suggestion once since you can use stuff you already own.  This weekend you could brew and see how it does this week as a test with very little cost out of pocket, just some beans.  (grind it in store and do it right away as soon as you get home)  Also, you could bring the brew to work with you in a water bottle and drink it all day heated or cold water/milk.  Doesn't mean do it for ever, just till your life settles down and you can get a machine.  I have even put it in hot chocolate from a package.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Hmm, thats a good point. Not as bad from what i read as grinding ahead.
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 477
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 9:38pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

The machine warm up time is not going to be able to be included in your three minute coffee-prep dash, but why not consider getting just an inexpensive pump-driven espresso machine and an inexpensive conical burr grinder to go with it.  I don't work for 1st in coffee, but they're being advertised right there above this text-window as I type and they have a $90 burr grinder and a $150 espresso machine for sale, easily found in three clicks.  They're not going to impress the people with perfect condition commercial machines from 1970s Milan, but they will make a decent espresso out of beans and water far cheaper, faster and with practice better than Starbuck's in all their plastic-bodied glory.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 654
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 10:20pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

urville Said:

Yeah and I dont even like drip coffee,

Posted December 2, 2012 link

The trick is having drip coffee from someplace that serves good drip coffee. I find with drip, you can get away with bloody murder and a lot of people do. Stale pre-ground Folgers from a can, coffee that has been sitting and baking
on a hot plate for hours on end, been there done that.. Heck, there was even a point in time where I thought that percolated coffee was OK. Once I found out what was so much better, I never could go back.

urville Said:

and if you factor in that I simply cant stop to get coffee at all...

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Well, I'm not a morning person. I used to wake up at 7:00 AM to go to work.. Because of my espresso habit, I make it a point to wake up 20 minutes earlier and it certainly is worth it. Especially when I become so much more alert
in the mornings as a result of having my morning coffee.

urville Said:

Its why i was thinking of having the machine at work... I just wont get coffee on weekends,  

Posted December 2, 2012 link

I would recommend against this. From a business point of view, when employees bring in their own equipment, it can pose as a potential liability to your employer. I'm not saying that the machine is unsafe or anything like that,
what I'm saying is that if some idiot burns their hand on your machine, your employer can be held liable for it. Not to mention, many workplaces have policies prohibiting the use of high wattage equipment on their premises which
doesn't belong to them. (ie. Space heaters, coffee makers, etc.) Not to mention, espresso machines are expensive.. What if someone steals it? Not to mention, no coffee on weekends!

urville Said:

5 minutes isnt so bad... Someone above was discussing a timer, That could help.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

I wouldn't consider anything less. As long as the timer is rated for the high wattage of the machine, it won't pose a fire hazard. Once the machine is all warmed up and ready to go, it doesn't take that long to make a shot. Especially
if you consider buying a machine which can brew and steam at the same time. Seriously, One of the things that makes it all worth it is the quality of the drink and the great taste. You will find time if you truly enjoy a good coffee.

urville Said:

I have seen people who claim the Nespresso isnt any worse than a SB coffee. I've had tassimo and I;ve learned that for one, milk pods are no bueno.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

I can certainly say without a doubt that Tassimo Cappuccinos are one of the worst tasting cappuccinos I've ever drank in my entire life. I've had a cappuccino from a Nespresso and a milk foamer which tasted better.
If I had no other option, I would use the latter instead of the former, at least a Nespresso with a Foamer is more palatable.

The Tassimo makes a drinkable shot, but again.. drinkable. I'd rather have a K-Cup instead.

urville Said:

Yes, see now I HAVE been ruined on teas.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Again, I realize that it sounds stupid giving out tea advice on a coffee board, but a lot of the laws which apply to coffee also apply to tea in that for good tea, it needs to be fresh. If you have become tired of drinking bitter black teas,
try your hand at switching over to drinking green or white teas instead. I've actually grown to dislike Orange Pekoe and Earl Grey teas and prefer sticking with green tea whenever I can't drink coffee.

urville Said:

Well, does the nespresso compare to a an SB? If I am drinking a capp or a latte based drink

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Best if I posted some videos.. Here's some guy plying the Nespresso with a milk frother:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcSkJeX5jH0

Note the amount of time it takes to get the milk up to temperature as well as how they don't show that you have to clean that frother out afterwards, which means removing the frothing disc and cleaning it.
Spiel aside, you'll notice how this guy keeps emphasizing how quick it is to make a shot. Any espresso machine on the market can make a quick shot. It's the foaming of the milk that takes all the time!

Here's Mark Jackson at Whole Latte Love demonstrating how to make a capuccino on a Rancilio Silvia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjS8h5DSW3M

Don't let his advice on how to cool down a boiler scare you. The one thing he doesn't show in this video is the time it took for the boiler to heat up to steaming temperature from brewing temperature (About 2-3 minutes)
or the coffee grinding and tamping he did prior. What he does show is how quick it takes to froth the milk.

Here's someone making a latte on a Bezzera BZ10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-R-VtB2874

You'll notice here the complete coffee prep process, but unlike the Silvia, there isn't any need to wait for the machine to warm up to steam.

Watch these videos first and make your judgement from that.

BTW, A good cappuccino is not spooned, it is poured. (At least from what I've heard.)

You'll notice right away that with the Nespresso, there is absolutely no control over the shot. You insert a capsule and that's it. You can't control dosage or grind at all. This is critical to adjusting the flavor of the coffee
to your preferences!! If you can "live with it" and want to stick with that, that's OK, but these videos should demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about.

BTW, You shouldn't ever grind coffee "ahead".. You should always grind it as you need it for the freshest coffee.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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russel
Senior Member
russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 448
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:11pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

OK, so I'm familiar with your situation and your needs.  You need coffee in the morning and you need it to be simple, reliable, and fast.  These are not characteristics of most home espresso equipement.  So you really have no choice but to compromise on quality in order to be able to have a cup of coffee in the morning.  That's not the end of the world.  It's not what most people here are interested in, but it is still a valid and not uncommon set of demands, especially for those with small children and jobs that start on the early side.  I think that you sould go ahead and purchase a Nespresso machine with a stand alone milk frother.  They all have the same internal brew system.  They all use the same coffee, some of which I might actually be semi-satisfied with drinking.  Some decent coffee is better than really bad coffee or no coffee at all (although I think that no coffee at all is better than really bad coffee, like the kind you get from deli in one of those blue and white paper cups).

You should feel free to buy the capsule coffee set up that suits you best.  From experience I will recommend against anything that draws milk though a tube, just don't do it.

You might also consider a Brazen or Bonavida drip brewer, a Baratza grinder, and a nice coffee subscription.  Drip isn't necessarily bad, it's just usually poorly executed with crappy coffee.  I know a certain roaster who is really happy with his Brazen.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 654
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 1:22am
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

russel Said:

You need coffee in the morning and you need it to be simple, reliable, and fast.  These are not characteristics of most home espresso equipment.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Put capsule in, push button, coffee comes out. It can't get any simpler than that... and if that is all the OP really wants with the understanding that it won't be the best coffee in the world, that's understandable.
The only way to get better speed and more convenience than even that is to go to a Super-Automatic. A lot of people on this board recommend against them, because they do break down and need maintenance.
Capsule machines have the advantage of just being simple. With simplicity comes reliability, but up to a point. One advantage, if budget is an issue, capsule machines are pretty much disposable.

The disadvantage to owning either machine is that the coffee will never be any better than what you can buy at Starb****. If that is "Good enough", then so be it. It was a corporate decision on their part to move
away from conventional La Marzocco (?) machines to Super-Automatics. If some executive thought it was a good idea, there must have been a reason behind it. (Probably to boost speed and efficiency.)

russel Said:

So you really have no choice but to compromise on quality in order to be able to have a cup of coffee in the morning.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

+1 ^    .. Like anything, the more work you put into something, the better the results... again, up to a point and YMMV.

russel Said:

I think that you sould go ahead and purchase a Nespresso machine with a stand alone milk frother.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Out of all of the capsule style machines, it would probably be my pick too. After all, I did actually get to use one at Williams Sonoma and drink the product they make. It's not bad for a few seconds of work.

russel Said:

Drip isn't necessarily bad, it's just usually poorly executed with crappy coffee.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

I would agree. One of the biggest problems with drip coffee is that there isn't much of a measure that you made a successful good tasting brew until you actually taste it. (Unless I count the time I actually boiled
coffee in a pot because the coffee maker was broken. God, I never smelled such a sickening smell in my entire life. I think the grounds were figuratively screaming or something.)  For the most part, the majority of
"Brewing screw-ups" result in bitter coffee. Bitter coffee is caused by water which is too hot or too much coffee grounds were being used. Either one of those things causes the water to over-extract the coffee.
Lastly, the biggest issue with drip is the hot plate. It ruins coffee because it basically cooks it, which is no better than boiling it. That is probably the reason for the lousy coffee at your workplace, not so much the
coffee itself.

Try drinking the coffee at your workplace after it has been freshly brewed and see if it tastes any better. If it does, brew yourself a pot and fill up a thermos with it. If you can, see if you can convince your boss
to at least swap out the coffee maker with one that has a proper carafe so the coffee doesn't get cooked.

As well, Keep a container of real milk in the company fridge with your name on it to solve the issue with the fake creamer. Better yet, try to convince your boss that buying real milk is healthier for everyone.
As for people dumping large amounts of sugar into their coffee, that's probably because the coffee is bitter. Read my advice above to resolve that.

Good luck on your quest.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 7:43am
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

Here is what I have taken away:

Coupled with this thread and some outward research... Here is a comparison of what I have grown accustomed to with the nespresso - attached

So I went to both SB and Dazbog and had a shot... omg, it was horrible. Both were burnt, but the Dazbog shot was really bad. This is what i assume old car oil tastes, so bitter and

However, given the other discussions its apparent to me that I should get the better machine as soon as possible too. To practice with, and get good at. Both on speed and ability and maybe down the line I'll both have more time and be good enough, fast enough, that I wont need a capsule machine or other pot. I am looking into the mokas and what not as well.

urville: taste2.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

The one on the left doesn't look like real crema to me. I am going to guess it is the pressurized fake crema.  It looks a lot better and probably tastes a bit better but I am guessing it doesn't have the mouth feel of real crema.  That looks very stiff on top with no bubbles in the coffee.  


https://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/espresso-almighty-crema

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,786
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Dec 4, 2012, 2:43pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

I am in bed at about 10 or 10:30 pm then up for work at 3:00 am, put in a 13 hour day before I get home again and yet........ I still have time for great coffee. YMMV

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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