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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New to Coffee  
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Nov 20, 2012, 9:28pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

What about this:

Saeco Vienna Superautomatica
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Nov 20, 2012, 10:45pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

They are expensive to buy, expensive to fix and prone to breaking down.  Combo machines are going to make mediocre at best coffee.  Maybe better than capsules but never tested it to say for sure.  Read the threads on superautos and the reviews on amazon.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2012, 8:11am
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

urville Said:

But in a capsule I can pop in walk away... i guess its more tot he reality that i cant spend more than that right there doing anything. total time can be longer. With a capsule and say aeroccino, I was thinking start it, walk away, come back mix in, bit of simple syrup, walk away.

Posted November 20, 2012 link

And the autodrip option (or kettle plus aeropress or CCD) would also work like that - set up brewer, walk away, come back when the coffee is brewed (or water hot).  And it'd be much better coffee than from a capsule machine.  So would an electric auto-moka pot - set up pot (add coffee and water, screw together), plug in, come back when brewed.
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,398
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Nov 21, 2012, 8:23am
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

urville Said:

Not on! i dont want to burn anything down lol... I mean left dirty. i mean for drip... who cares right? It's drip.

Posted November 20, 2012 link

NO.  You cannot leave a drip machine dirty, anymore than you can leave an espresso machine dirty or a frying pan dirty, or leave the sheets on your bed for three months dirty . . . .

I know -- at least I think I know -- this isn't a troll, but you are so far removed from getting anywhere CLOSE to a) espresso, b) the level of interest in coffee generally (espresso, drip, press, siphon, etc.) that 95 percent of the people here focus on, that a part of me thinks you'd be better off driving through a *$ on the way to work/school.  After all, you've said:

urville Said:

time is such a pain for me...

Posted November 20, 2012 link

So if you don't want to take the time to make great coffee, why bother?

urville Said:

I mean on a scale, how does SB and a nespresso or that CBLT compare?

Posted November 20, 2012 link

Most people here will tell you that Starbux sucks, and so does Nespresso.  

urville Said:

SB and many machines that claim espresso certainly do not taste like a cup of coffee with milk and sugar, not to me. They may not be the big stuff but they arent synonymous with the lower levels either.

Posted November 20, 2012 link

Actually, yes they are.

urville Said:

I would need to be able to, from start to finish including clean up, accomplish this coffee in less than 3-4 minutes? That seems unlikely having watched many baristas. The machines seem to be messy, high maintenance, slow to heat up and the process involved without even considering clean up. Please, dont get me wrong... i wish I could devote time like that, but...

Posted November 20, 2012 link

I worked a 30-48 hour week all through my last two years of high school and college.  I was never so stressed, never so tired, never so pressed for time that  I couldn't brew coffee in a Chemex, an automatic drip, or to pull a shot on my Pavoni.  Clearly, you don't want to do that. Stick with instant.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 654
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Fri Nov 23, 2012, 11:47pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

I think I should chime in here a bit.

At first, I was somewhat like you.. I was kind of sick and tired of having to dig coffee filters out of the cabinets, measure the coffee, put in the water and then waste
coffee in the morning because my wife doesn't drink coffee.

So, I bought a K-Cup machine. Quick, Easy and Fast. Put water in, pop a cup in and go. K-Cup machines make drinkable coffee, but that's about it. Drinkable. The coffee
quality isn't all that great, but it is passable. K-Cup machines are affordable and cheap, but they also get a little fussy, like any machine.

I'll still "suffer" though drinking a K-Cup when I need some coffee really fast and I just want my caffeine, but I really prefer the better quality lattes and cappuccinos I can make.
It takes me about 5 minutes to make one on a fully warmed up DB machine. It used to take me 10 minutes on my SBDU, but it was still worth it.

Some friends of mine think I'm nuts because I've spent so much on gear, they're perfectly happy with their Tassimo. However, I've drank the Cappuccinos from theirs and
believe me, they taste horrid. The Americano pods are drinkable, but I can make better.

Believe me, good coffee takes time to prepare. Plain and simple. Regardless of whether or not you do conventional drip, espresso capsules or pods. The extra work you do
to prepare it makes the reward so much better, at least IMHO.

Now, I use a Zojirushi Water boiler at work and I just have a cheap tea ball. I steep my Pu-Erh or my Ti Kwan Yin Tea with it, 3 minutes later I have a cup of hot tea.
Green teas can be steeped again and again and again. Heck, a small tea ball of Pu-Erh lasts me for the better part of a week.. and that's usually 2-3 cups in a day.
I don't need any "fancy" filters, pumps, gadgets or gizmos.. except a water boiler which keeps a large volume of water hot.

Now, it seems kind of stupid to talk about tea on a coffee forum, but tea was discovered when a tea leaf fell into a cup of hot water. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
Actually, I have a few Chinese friends who don't even use a tea ball at all, they just let the raw tea sit in the bottom of the cup.

In all honesty though, if you don't want the fuss and muss with dealing with preparing coffee and you don't want to spend a lot of money, A capsule machine, like
a K-Cup, T-Disc, Nespresso, etc would really be the only way to go, at least IMHO. However, you just have to keep in mind that you'll never get cafe quality coffee out of one
of those machines.. I should know! As well, don't expect a lot of reliability out of them either.

... and if drip coffee is too much trouble, then perhaps you should consider switching to drinking tea. (Again IMHO)

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

dyqik Said:

And the autodrip option (or kettle plus aeropress or CCD) would also work like that - set up brewer, walk away, come back when the coffee is brewed (or water hot).  And it'd be much better coffee than from a capsule machine.  So would an electric auto-moka pot - set up pot (add coffee and water, screw together), plug in, come back when brewed.

Posted November 21, 2012 link

Wait, let me look these up, I think i misunderstood
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 3:00pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

wow...

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

NO.  You cannot leave a drip machine dirty, any more than you can leave an espresso machine dirty or a frying pan dirty, or leave the sheets on your bed for three months dirty . . . .

Posted November 21, 2012 link

90% of people do though. They might brew it, pour, and turn it off and clean it when they get home. I donít do this, because I hate drip, thatís likely why I have a seemingly cavalier attitude towards it and the point was I assumed this wasnít good, thus... I have to make the entire process fit into my schedule.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I know -- at least I think I know -- this isn't a troll, but you are so far removed from getting anywhere CLOSE to a) espresso, b) the level of interest in coffee generally (espresso, drip, press, siphon, etc.) that 95 percent of the people here focus on, that a part of me thinks you'd be better off driving through a *$ on the way to work/school.  After all, you've said:

Posted November 21, 2012 link

Letís not get rude. No, I am not trolling just because the level in which I am willing to drink coffee isnít the same as most people here or you. I mean, really? Nowhere does it state that I have to have a certain level of interest pass a litmus test, or meet anotherís conditions other than standard rules, being on topic, not causing issues, attacking or being abusive, etc.. so... I appreciate the opinion but... There are plenty of things I participate in forums on and I donít hold newbies or casual interested parties to some kind of bar. I'm not going to drink drip, it's even longer to stop and get SB coffee, I thought perhaps of all places people here could tell since they have experience. Being human, anotherís experience tells me things both subjectively and objectively that I can then use to help inform my decision. Maybe the nespresso is as good as SB. IF it is, then thatís doable. Sure, I know itís not the holy grail of espresso; neither it nor SB might be real espresso, but sure as heck isnít grocery drip or fast food restaurant or my bossís moldy mud.

Now, I well expected this, no offense, I'm Hispanic and I am the same way about "Mexican" food. So, I donít mean it rudely, I just know what I am and I know it when I see it. Some people will tell me about a new great Mexican restaurant, and I've been there and think, omg these poor people... but hereís the difference. They look happy and itís on topic, so I donít take that away from them. I might recommend something better, but I donít trollop through their opinion with a haughty attitude. Maybe they arenít as into it as I am, thatís doesnít make them or their opinion completely invalid. Amongst others like them itís completely valid. Besides I donít kid myself that knowing good Mexican food, the best, isnít as much curse as blessing... I can no longer just go anywhere and enjoy myself. I donít look down on them and I donít think they arenít worth talking to because they might never "be on my level". Look at some point when I have time I likely will go further with it, but you canít predict what I will or wonít do and neither can I. I actually would like to know what a real espresso tastes like. Right now, I donít have what it takes in terms of money apparently, or time every day. I wonít be in school, nor have this job forever. Cut me some slack guy, I mean honesty...

So if you don't want to take the time to make great coffee, why bother?

Because despite what you say, there is more to it than black and white, even I with an unrefined taste and basic sense can determine as much. I have had a lot of drip in my life, a lot of pulled espresso based drinks too. I can tell a difference between them that runs a quite large gamut between the best thing I have had and the worst. I mean, I am a little offended. I bother, because I donít know what coffee gold tastes like. That might make me ignorant and unworthy of your and maybe the whole boards time, but I also have the benefit of not knowing the difference. The good coffee I have had is good enough to make me want more, itís my subjective life, what do you gain by giving me a hard time about it? I appreciate that there is something far better, there is no scenario here though where you have to chase me off, or ruin what I have no knowledge of and am quite fine ingesting at this point in my evolution. Thatís all I am trying to say here.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Most people here will tell you that Starbux sucks, and so does Nespresso.  

Posted November 21, 2012 link

Duly noted. Yet, no one really has. Most seem to know that I can approximate something to get me by. That likely, knowing my limited experience, I wonít be privy to understanding what I am missing anyway but that I do know the difference WITHIN that scope.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

Actually, yes they are.

Posted November 21, 2012 link

I think I donít understand what you hope to gain by forcing your subjective view onto me or why it is somehow necessary that I would either accept it or be a troll.

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

I worked a 30-48 hour week all through my last two years of high school and college.  I was never so stressed, never so tired, never so pressed for time that  I couldn't brew coffee in a Chemex, an automatic drip, or to pull a shot on my Pavoni.  Clearly, you don't want to do that. Stick with instant.

Posted November 21, 2012 link

Well, everyone is telling me there is no way to pull a shot in the time I have. This is not about wanting. Except on drip, I have no interest in drip coffee. Well ok, I get it. Iím not cool enough, donít know enough, and havenít passed the litmus test for ever doing so, so I should just wander off and drink what even I know is worse because its gold or nothing? Now who is trolling? It was unnecessary to be that way about it and I think Iíve illustrated that.

sheesh
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urville
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 15
Location: Iron Mountain
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 4:02pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

I'm not going to get bullied, even it means I get banned. Thats just ridiculous and imho unecessary so, I apologize but I'm not going to change it...

qualin Said:

I think I should chime in here a bit.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

Thanks.

qualin Said:

At first, I was somewhat like you.. I was kind of sick and tired of having to dig coffee filters out of the cabinets, measure the coffee, put in the water and then waste
coffee in the morning because my wife doesn't drink coffee.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

Yeah and I dont even like drip coffee, and if you factor in that I simply cant stop to get coffee at all... i end up just not having it becasue the instant and my bosses food poison coffee is just... i cant do it... I'd prolly get SB if I could everyday. Ive never had better but I just cant, no time. I live 15 miles out. Its why i was thinking of having the machine at work... I just wont get coffee on weekends, but it would give me a tiny bit more time. I'll still have the boss wondering why i cant just spend less time and drink his coffee... I mean they leave it for days... no joke... up to 3 at a time. he might not let me though. I'm trying here, I wish I could meet this guy aboves expectations or "be him" or what ever, but...

qualin Said:

I'll still "suffer" though drinking a K-Cup when I need some coffee really fast and I just want my caffeine, but I really prefer the better quality lattes and cappuccinos I can make.
It takes me about 5 minutes to make one on a fully warmed up DB machine. It used to take me 10 minutes on my SBDU, but it was still worth it.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

5 minutes isnt so bad... Someone above was discussing a timer, That could help.

qualin Said:

Some friends of mine think I'm nuts because I've spent so much on gear, they're perfectly happy with their Tassimo. However, I've drank the Cappuccinos from theirs and
believe me, they taste horrid. The Americano pods are drinkable, but I can make better.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

Now see, I have been looking, reading, and watching. Let's get out of the way that I already know there is no objective coffee taste as the experience is subjective, so... Having sais that.... I have seen people who claim the Nespresso isnt any worse than a SB coffee. I've had tassimo and I;ve learned that for one, milk pods are no bueno. It just tastes like burnt milk, this is identical on the SB Verisimo machine. The coffee on the tassimo was not good either, not even as good as SB... The Verisimo was better, coffee wise, than the Tassimo by far.

qualin Said:

Believe me, good coffee takes time to prepare. Plain and simple. Regardless of whether or not you do conventional drip, espresso capsules or pods. The extra work you do
to prepare it makes the reward so much better, at least IMHO.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

I dont doubt that in the least. The question is, can i get passable coffee in the time I have, SB grade stuff. Until a point comes where I can devote myself to this. As it stands now school,  work, family, chores, errands, and other outside interests I already have... this timespan might be the best I have... Surely I am not disposable for this nor just a troll unwilling to do any "work"... as it was put above.

qualin Said:

Now, I use a Zojirushi Water boiler at work and I just have a cheap tea ball. I steep my Pu-Erh or my Ti Kwan Yin Tea with it, 3 minutes later I have a cup of hot tea.
Green teas can be steeped again and again and again. Heck, a small tea ball of Pu-Erh lasts me for the better part of a week.. and that's usually 2-3 cups in a day.
I don't need any "fancy" filters, pumps, gadgets or gizmos.. except a water boiler which keeps a large volume of water hot.

Posted November 23, 2012 link

Yes, see now I HAVE been ruined on teas. So i do drink teas, but they arent coffee, lol. At home on a weekend, I drink coffee and then teas both hot and cold the rest of the day, and water, but I am missing the coffee all week. I was just, like I said above, seeing if I could fit something passable in.


qualin Said:

In all honesty though, if you don't want the fuss and muss with dealing with preparing coffee and you don't want to spend a lot of money, A capsule machine, like
a K-Cup, T-Disc, Nespresso, etc would really be the only way to go, at least IMHO. However, you just have to keep in mind that you'll never get cafe quality coffee out of one
of those machines.. I should know! As well, don't expect a lot of reliability out of them either.

... and if drip coffee is too much trouble, then perhaps you should consider switching to drinking tea. (Again IMHO)

Posted November 23, 2012 link

Its not that I mind, if my work didnt care then this would all be irrelevant. See, heres the deal, i have a pre-teen daughter, a wife and one bathroom. Late nights of school, then homework, then family time, then sleep, then waking, 2 minutes in a bathroom despite having two of them, and out the door. I'm not lazy as suggested above.

Well, does the nespresso compare to a an SB? If I am drinking a capp or a latte based drink
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,398
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 5:08pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

urville Said:

I'm not going to get bullied, even it means I get banned. Thats just ridiculous and imho unecessary so, I apologize but I'm not going to change it...

Posted December 2, 2012 link

As I said previously, most of the people here are willing to take the time to make good great coffee, be it espresso, drip, syphon, etc.  Thus, my comment about being "far away" from what most people here focus upon.  I stand by that comment.  That said, no one is going to ban you, and you aren't being bullied, either.  But I personally still see no problem in getting up five minutes earlier -- hey! you'd have the bathroom to yourself!

urville Said:

5 minutes isnt so bad... Someone above was discussing a timer, That could help.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Depending upon the size of a machine's boiler, it can take anywhere from 30-90 minutes to reach a point of thermal stability.  This is VERY different than simply getting the water in the boiler up to temperature.  This is why most of us do put our machines on timers (to kick on, say, an hour before we get up in the morning), or we leave them on24/7.  That way, all we have to do is grind the beans and pull the shot.

That said, when I was in college and had an SBDU machine, and never had groups like this to ask questions of, I'd get up, go into the kitchen, switch on the machine, go shower, and by the time I was out of the shower, I could make my espresso/cappuccino/latte/whatever . . .

urville Said:

I have seen people who claim the Nespresso isnt any worse than a SB coffee.

Posted December 2, 2012 link

Actually, I think it's better, even though neither one is "great." I prefer to find a Nespresso in my hotel room than Starbucks around the corner or in te lobby.

That said, have you considered a moka pot?  That might be an option, and it's a less costly one.  Unless you get a great deal off craigslist or eBay, I cannot imagine being able to get a decent (not great, not good -- decent) machine AND a grinder for $199-250 . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,031
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 5:23pm
Subject: Re: New to Coffee
 

I still think you would be better off with something you can do ahead like cold brewed with everything you talk about in you have going on morning.  You should at least try my suggestion once since you can use stuff you already own.  This weekend you could brew and see how it does this week as a test with very little cost out of pocket, just some beans.  (grind it in store and do it right away as soon as you get home)  Also, you could bring the brew to work with you in a water bottle and drink it all day heated or cold water/milk.  Doesn't mean do it for ever, just till your life settles down and you can get a machine.  I have even put it in hot chocolate from a package.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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