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how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
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terrone
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terrone
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 10
Location: london
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 5:56am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks! thanks!
that is really helpful!
Well, I've done an extensive research and all the consumer units over 2/3ways have 100A RCD (too big?)
But I've found this preassembled that has all the requirements ( I won't use the 1x16A , 1x6A, 1x20A that are extra) :

Click Here (www.wickes.co.uk)

8 Way Super Garage IP65 Kit 63A RCD:
Kit contains: 1 x 63A RCD 30mA, 6 MCBs: 3x6A,1x16A and 2x20A and Cable kit

( I know the RCD is still 63 but it's the lowest I can find on a small consumer unit).

If that would do the job (it's available at a store near me) i will buy it :-)

PS:
I can have an electrician to test the final result tho (but I can't use him to put it together for previously explained reasons - job is too small)
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Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 6:36am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

That looks like a good package and a good price. Don't worry too much about the rating of the RCD - that's the maximum current it can handle, but it will still trip if you have something like a 30 milliamp imbalance between live and neutral. You will already have a contact breaker or RCD "upstream" where this circuit comes out of the main distribution.  As you've found out it is a 32 amp circuit, I'm assuming it has a 32 amp contact breaker in the main distribution box, so that will trip if the total current draw goes over the total circuit limit (which it shouldn't do anyway if you're using a 20 and two 6's).

That is an "MK" unit, which are among the best.  Like all modern boxes, it's DIN standard, so all manufacturer stuff is interchangeable. You can get blanking plates which you should use to cover the unused slots if you aren't going to insert the other breakers.  You might find some come with it, but the listing doesn't say.

What you mustn't do of course, is leave the slots open  ;o))))

Yes, please do get an Electrician to OK everything before finally connecting it.  You will probably find he wants all the connecting cable that isn't armoured to be in conduit too.

I think you're nearly there.

Now, about getting it plumbed in.....  ??
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terrone
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terrone
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
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Location: london
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Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 6:51am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

YAY!
thanks a lot!
I rung and unit is available! If it comes pre-assembled, shall I leave the extra breakers simply unused but in the unit (or remove them & cover holes)?
The main distribution board is locked, I can only see all the cables (16A & 32A) coming out from the inside to the sockets screwed on the panel. i will ask to look inside and check it).

I will cover the unarmored cable that I will use internally :-)

Plumbing "scares" me less of course. I have all the equipment: John guest, flojet etc.... haven't started but should be ok :-)

PS:
are you London based? Coffee is on me!
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Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 9:01am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

If it is pre-assembled, unless you can make use of them elsewhere, I wouldn't bother removing the contact breakers you don't use.  They won't do any harm. Just make sure you label which ones you DO use, and for the benefit of anyone who may come along later, mark the fact that the total allowable load on the unit is 32 amps.

Thanks for the offer of a coffee, but I'm not in London very often.

When I said plumbing, I meant "proper" plumbing into your mains water feed and drainage if the logistics of the building allow you to do it.

Tanks and pumps are a poor second best ;o(

Let us know how it all works out.
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terrone
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terrone
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 6:04am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

ok, I'm back after a few days of electrical engeneering study (kidding).
I see when you say to plug the 6A to the socket, a couple of people said is not wise (despite i should mark them as 6A Max). What about using the 20A for the machine and the 16A for the sockets?
anyway, I've attached a "masterplan" :-)

terrone: masterplan-eklectrical_sml.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 9:13am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

You're into a bit of a grey area, where circuits have defined maximum load limits, but there's not necessarily anything to stop someone from overloading them.

If you use the 20 amp for the machine, then the 16 amp to link to a double socket, "in theory" that could only overload the circuit by a maxiumum of one amp because although the breaker will handle 16 amps, in theory (again) you're only permitted to draw a maximum of 13 amps from a double socket. All circuits and breakers etc. allow some headroom provided the overload isn't above a certain amount for a length of time. So absolute max of 33 amps. Job done and it's a good 'un then.

Well, not necessarily. There's nothing physically to prevent you from from plugging in 2 x 13 amp devices to that socket, even though it isn't designed to permit that power throughput ;o)  People do it all the time in the kitchen - kettle in one side (3100w fast boil) microwave in the other etc..

It gets even more complicated with ring mains, where the total power draw of 32 amps is assumed in theory to be balanced around the ring, but you can never guarantee that. Also there is no limit to the number of outlets you are allowed to have on a ring main - only a limit on how many square metres of floor space it can serve.

It's just that in the real world all this isn't expected to create a problem, and there's a generally accepted convention that where you have multiple devices that in total if all powered up together and pulling their full load would up to a point overload a supply, it is assumed that won't happen. If it did it would just trip the breaker anyway.

If you do the 20 and 2 x 6's as suggested, and any of that gets overloaded by chance, unless it's a catastrophic short circuit it should trip the relevant breaker in your new box only, rather than your main breaker which may not be so easy to get to.  If someone ignores a label or it gets removed, and they try to pull more load, the worst that can happen is the 6 amp breaker trips.

However, if you want to avoid that risk as far as is practically possible, rather than using sockets and plugs, you could hard wire the grinder(s) through fused spurs with 3 amp (but check the grinder rating) fuses in the spurs, so you could then run 2 from one of the breakers, or if they need a bigger fuse, you could split the load and have one grinder on each with 5 amp fuses, plus low energy lighting and pump (which need next to no current in the total scheme of things).

In that setup you don't have any sockets or plugs at all.  If you've got plenty of other sockets around for other purposes, that wouldn't be too inconvenient.

What you can't ever provide for is some clown coming along later, and upping the breaker sizes, putting bigger fuses in spurs or adding sockets etc. Any adverse results of which would be down to their own stupidity.

I'm sure there are other permutations you could think of, but provided the cables you use are up to spec.  any accidental circuit overload is handled by the breakers, which is what they are there to do.

However, as before, only a competent leccie can give you qualified advice.
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terrone
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terrone
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 9:33am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

Yeah, that make sense tho.
I've reattached the masterplan v.2
This should be right...

terrone: masterplan-eklectrical_v2.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 9:46am
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

You got rid of a grinder ;o)

You'll often find sockets in commercial buildings with a label saying "x amps only" because they have been protected by a subsidiary breaker or fuse which will trip on overload.

There's a college I sometimes work at where the lecture rooms have a socket to allow visiting lecturers to plug in their laptops and connect to the presentation system.  

It says in red letters  "3 amps max only - resetting this device will take us some time to do, and we do not respond to urgent calls"

(I guess it might depend on exactly who you are, of course....)
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terrone
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terrone
Joined: 23 Nov 2012
Posts: 10
Location: london
Expertise: Pro Roaster

Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 4:40pm
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

....TaDaaaaaa!
The bad boy in the picture........ WORKS!!!!
:-)
All  connected, tonight I tested only one socket 6A and it works fine no BOOOOM so far.
will hook up the machine shortly.

thanks again!

terrone: Screen Shot 2012-12-10 at 23.34.17.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Posted Mon Dec 10, 2012, 5:05pm
Subject: Re: how to: La marzocco GB5 2 groups on a 13amp standard UK socket
 

Excellent. Well, you wouldn't have got a "boooom" anyway - just a bit of a "click" if anything was seriously awry, which it clearly isn't ;o)

About the earth connections ? If they are the ones on the top right, and connected with bare copper (which is how the cable is made) , you should really cover them in yellow/green sleeving, and the same in the earth connections behind the sockets.  Also, you might just have taken a little too much insulation off the neutrals as it looks like more than necessary bare wire showing.

Sorry to sound picky, but it would be unfortunate if a sparkie were to pick up on these and withhold approval.

(Edited)
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