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VST and standard 58mm tamper?
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Burd
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Burd
Joined: 29 May 2012
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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 10:57am
Subject: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

For some reason I couldn't find an answer in the search so I'll ask.  

For a 15g ridgeless VST basket would a standard 58mm tamper work well or do I need to get the 58.35 it's sized at?  I know the 58 will "work" but if I won't see the complete benefit because of the size I would rather wait and get the set.

The main question is work well and not just work.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:04am
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

Well.....
A lot of things I don't get so... fussy about. .35mm is not very much and from a personal point of view, I would not worry about it.  There is more slop in my daily tamper than that and I have good results, at least good enough that I am not looking to "upgrade" my tamper. Well as I have a presspoint that I use it would be a bit more involved but still...

Give it a try, it costs nothing to use what you have and if you do not get a doughnut extraction or channeling I do not know what a slightly larger tamper would do for you. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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jwoodyu
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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:27am
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

Burd Said:

For some reason I couldn't find an answer in the search so I'll ask.  

For a 15g ridgeless VST basket would a standard 58mm tamper work well or do I need to get the 58.35 it's sized at?  I know the 58 will "work" but if I won't see the complete benefit because of the size I would rather wait and get the set.

The main question is work well and not just work.

Posted November 27, 2012 link

I used a standard 58 with my VST for a while. I don't think it is going to cause any pernicious baddies in your puck. It will leave the edges a little more messy but not a big deal. I like my RB 53.5 just dandy by the way.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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andys
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Posted Tue Nov 27, 2012, 6:28pm
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

Burd Said:

The main question is work well and not just work.

Posted November 27, 2012 link

It depends on many factors, including your coffee and your technique. But I believe it is quite difficult to tell the difference between shots prepared with a 58.0 vs 58.4mm.

When I've measured paired shots to compare the results directly, I've found the extraction yield to be about 0.5% higher with the 58.4 - for example, 19.5% vs 19.0%.

This is with my technique and my machinery. YMMV.

My taste buds are marginal in discerning that degree of difference. Still, if one wants the best, most even extraction possible, it's likely that the 58.4 will help. But if you can't get the tamper right away I still think you should try the basket.

disclosure: VST beta tester, no financial interest in the company

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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hamish5178
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Joined: 27 Apr 2012
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Posted Sat Dec 1, 2012, 7:50am
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

andys Said:

When I've measured paired shots to compare the results directly, I've found the extraction yield to be about 0.5% higher with the 58.4 - for example, 19.5% vs 19.0%.

Posted November 27, 2012 link



I am seriously skeptical of this. What sort of testing did you do to come to this conclusion?

Burd,

I've used VST baskets at home and at work extensively. I bought the Cafelat VST tamper some time ago and after several months gave it away. I much prefer a convex tamper with a little more wiggle room. The precision fit tamper resulted in a little less coffee sticking to the basket walls, but the fit had so little give that it really disrupted my routine. The slightest error when entering/exiting the basket would mess up the puck. YMMV, possibly not a large concern in a low volume situation, but honestly tamper size (within reason) is probably last on the list of things that will effect your shots.
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frank828
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Posted Sat Dec 1, 2012, 1:06pm
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

hamish5178 Said:

I am seriously skeptical of this. What sort of testing did you do to come to this conclusion?

Posted December 1, 2012 link



andys Said:

Extractmojo and VST filter basket beta tester

Posted November 27, 2012 link

my best guess would be the extractmojo software w/refractometer.
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 861
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 5:04am
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

hamish5178 Said:

I am seriously skeptical of this. What sort of testing did you do to come to this conclusion?

Posted December 1, 2012 link

I understand your skepticism. I could not believe it myself at the time.

As Frank suggested, it was comparing paired shots, measuring TDS with a VST refractometer, and thereby calculating extraction yield.

Again, this was with my equipment and my technique. YMMV.

If someone is planning to use VST baskets exclusively, I would recommend a 58.3 or 58.4 tamper. I doubt humans can reliably taste the difference between that and a 58.0, but you might as well give yourself the best setup possible.

OTOH, if you switch baskets brands regularly and only want to buy only one tamper, the 58.0 will work OK.

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
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Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 6:00am
Subject: Re: VST and standard 58mm tamper?
 

I was rather amazed by what all my baskets and tampers measured when I got myself some calipers to measure them with.

My first 58mm tamper measures 57.5mm,
Stock NS triple basket 58.94mm
Stock NS double basket 58.81mm
Stock NS single basket 58.13
HQ triple ridgeless 58.82mm and 58.62
HQ triple                58.85
HQ 14g.                 58.78
VST 18g.                58.7

All measurement except the stock single would do fine with a 58.35mm tamper and actually I could go bigger with a custom made tamper. Even with my tiny 57.5mm tamper I get fine results from the VST basket. I want to pick up some more VST baskets before I order a new tamper, if they are less then 58.7mm then I will just get a stock 58.35 tamper otherwise I will get a custom tamper from Pullman that measures a bit larger. The HQ baskets from espresso parts are my go to baskets, they are great for up dosed triples that I like yet allow a nice range of dosing without issues on my machine. I do like my 18g VST but it likes 18g +/-1g so ultimately I need more range of sizes to fit my routine.
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