xxguitarist Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2009 Posts: 81 Location: Southern OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale MiniVivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 11:30pm Subject: Can o' worms.. Breville dual boiler vs Bezzera BZ07.. or other for same $$
Hi All, I'm quite happy with my LaSpaziale mini Vivaldi II & SuperJolly, however my mother would like a bit smaller of a pair!
Looking to stay in the area of $1200, for the machine. Milk drinks will be more common than straight shots. Probably not used daily, possibly left off for a couple weeks, then fired up to handle a dinner party.
She's college-professor-smart, but complicated operation will intimidate her anyway for some reason.
The aforementioned BES900XL and BZ07 are my two initial suggestions. Does anyone have experience with both? I'm aware of the differences between HX and DB, and do feel that the lack of a cooling flush would be an advantage, however it seems the BDB might need a warming flush! Given the lack of time for the breville being out there, I've got a few concerns for durability/longevity. My impression is that the Bezzera is pretty solid.
Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 7:12am Subject: Re: Can o' worms.. Breville dual boiler vs Bezzera BZ07.. or other for same $$
I only have the BZ07, but I can say it's pretty solid, with fairly standard components inside, and it has the benefit of a simple interface - two buttons (power and brew). One interesting thing is that it can still make reasonable to good shots if you forget the cooling flush - the group runs cooler than brewing temp and so the superheated water in the heat exchanger hits the cool group and produces about the right temperature after idling, and the mixer type HX means that the brew water is supplied cooler later in the shot. You obviously get more control and a better intra-shot temperature profile, and thus better shots with a flush, but it's acceptable without the cooling flush. Warm up time is pretty good as well - 30 minutes is plenty.
The other thing is that the stock steam tip is a bit fast for one or two drinks worth of milk - a two hole (or tighter four hole) tip is a lot more controllable.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 7:20am Subject: Re: Can o' worms.. Breville dual boiler vs Bezzera BZ07.. or other for same $$
Please understand that ALL machines require a flush, if for nothing else, you need to flush spent grounds from the dispersion screen in the group head.
HX machines require a flush to remove over heated water from the system.
Most (not all) DB machines require a warming flush
So the question is not one of a flush or not but what kind of flush are you going to do. When you remember that ALL machines require a flush to clear spent grounds, is it a big deal to flush a few seconds more for a HX machine?
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
xxguitarist Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2009 Posts: 81 Location: Southern OR Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale MiniVivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer SJ
Posted Wed Dec 5, 2012, 12:22pm Subject: Re: Can o' worms.. Breville dual boiler vs Bezzera BZ07.. or other for same $$
Thanks for the input.
JPF, Yes, have compared dimensions & had her do some measuring. Either seem reasonable for her kitchen, though smaller is a check in the "pro" column.
Cal, Yes, all need a flush to clean, but the idea of "make coffee, then clean the group" is less fussy sounding than "do a 4 second flush to bring things to temp equilibrium within the 30 sec before you pull a shot" Not much issue to me,
I haven't found much benefit with a warming flush on my Vivaldi- maybe partially helped by the bottomless PF.
dyqik, Interesting fact, wasn't aware the group sat enough cooler to smooth things out.
Will look into alternate steam tips if we take that route.
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