calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,651 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 7:45am Subject: Re: which machine to buy
The grinder is FAR more important than the machine though the machine is what everyone wants to be the star of the show, it isn't.
Buy at least a Vario, do NOT skimp on the grinder, you will get MUCH better espresso with a Vario and your machine than splitting your money on a barely able to grind for espresso grinder and a machine that, for all real reasons, is the same as what you have now.
Buy the grinder, skip the machine "upgrade" (it isn't so much of a upgrade but a side step) then save your money for a better machine when the one you have does finally go belly up.
You asked for advice on how to improve your espresso, that is the best use of your money to reach that goal.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 75 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 9:46am Subject: Re: which machine to buy
Looking to purchase my first Espresso machine. I prefer milk based drinks, Lattes and cappuccinos, and an occasional strait shot. My wife and I have 2 cups in the AM and another cup after dinner. My total budget is around $600. The 2 automatic machines I have come to like from reviews are 1: Breville BES860XL and 2: DeLonghi ESAM3300. Both have adjustable grinders and pretty good abilities to steam milk. My questions are 1: What set up would you guys recommend I get in my Budget Range? 2: Would I be better of buying a Semi Auto and Grinder or one of the Autos in which I will be making mostly milk based drinks. Based on reviews I was going to get a Gaggia Classic and a Baratza Encore, but figured where im making milk based drinks in which the espresso is mixed with milk, I would benefit from the convenience of a built in grinder as well as the better milk steamers on the Autos. I have never pulled a shot in my life, but willing to learn if its going to make me better drinks. Thanks
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:12am Subject: Re: which machine to buy
Combo machines are bad, they store beans over a heat source and they do not put a good grinder in the combo machine. They are disposable machines that make mediocre coffee at best. If you really want good coffee you want the best grinder you can afford because it is really that important. And a year ago I had never pulled a shot. This site and youtube videos taught me how.
Hand grinders are the cheapest: Hario Coffee Hand Grinder OE LIDO Manual Coffee Grinder OE PHAROS Hand Coffee Grinder Baratza: Prescio Vario(w) Used commercial: Super jolly etc.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 75 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:41am Subject: Re: which machine to buy
Thats the kind of info I need. I did not know that about Autos. Perhaps Im better off with a Gaggia Classic and the best grinder I can afford. I can learn how to froth and steam my milk. Thx
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:22am Subject: Re: which machine to buy
All single boilers (gaggia, ranchilio etc) take a while to steam multiple drinks. It might get old making a couple of drinks every morning. My machine used is a good buy and is a steaming dragon, NS Oscar used is round 500. Not pretty but that is part of what makes it a bargain. But the ability to steam and pull at the same time can't be over rated for people that like more than one milk drink. I had not pulled a shot before but I really wanted a robust machine and I knew I liked milk drinks so I skipped the singles and started with an HX. I am not sorry for one minute I skipped the single boiler. I never drink plain espresso shots so I am always steaming.
Other option is getting a good grinder with 500 and spending about 100 on a used starbucks espresso machine from craigslist. Get your feet wet then upgrade to a nicer/new HX or double boiler after you are sure you want to do it.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 75 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 2:08pm Subject: Re: which machine to buy
My wife may shoot me if I tell her Im going to spend $500 on a coffee beans grinder, but if I survive the initial screaming Ill have a many great mornings of sippin my espresso drinks!!
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 2:35pm Subject: Re: which machine to buy
It is counter intuitive to spend more on the grinder but it is more noticeable change to espresso in the cup. The machine just delivers water a lot of the flavor is from the grinder.
Cheapo machine can make good espresso with a good grinder but you can have a 3k espresso machine and not get good espresso if you are using a cheapo grinder. It is that important.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
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