AMubaslat Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2012 Posts: 16 Location: The World Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo Drip: Bosch
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 4:27am Subject: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
Dear All,
I'm very new here, but have been lurking around and reading posts for some time. What a great resource of information you got.
Basically, I need your help in deciding whether to go with Nuova Simonelli Musica or the Rocket R58.
For the past 3 years, i have been settling with my DeLonghi Perfecta ESAM5500 Fully Automatic. But no more. I decided that time has come to upgrade to something more professional (well, still for home use), and find some other place for the Perfecta. I tend to pull 8-10 espressos every day, with occasional 3-4 milk drinks. However, milk steaming capabilities are very important for me since we appreciate good lattes and machiatos.
From what i read, my concerns are as follow:
Musica doesn't seem to be as reliable as the R58
R58 takes around 30 minutes to be ready, not sure about the Musica.
R58 doesn't have a local support where i live, while the Musica does.
Any thoughts and recommendations are welcomed and will definitely help me in making the decision.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,607 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 5:56am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
Welcome to CoffeeGeek!
I think those espresso machines are quite hard to compare. One the one hand you have a semi-automatic dual boiler machine with an E61 brew group, and on the other hand an automatic (volumetric dosing) HX machine with programmable pre-infusion. Both will offer the possibility of brewing and steaming simultaneously. While the R58 is a prosumer machine, the Musica has been licenced for light commercial use (up to 60 cups per day). I consider both machines to be of equal reliability. Both will take 30 to 45 minutes to fully heat up. Both are capable of brewing excellent espresso.
Local support can be very important. I really like the Rocket Espresso, but in your case I'd go for the Nuova Simonelli.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,655 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 7:19am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
What Nobby said, I am a big fan of Rocket machines but have no hands on with the R58. I love HX but would not be opposed to owning a good DB. I am a HUGE fan of volumetric dosing and plumb in. You need to decide on what features you value the highest and then which you like the looks of the best while taking into account support for the machine you purchase.
How is that for an answer that does not tell you which way to go! Really, all we can do is to ask you questions that help YOU to decide as it is your money and your choice. There is NO perfect machine, let alone a perfect machine for everyone.
Don't forget though, you WILL need a good grinder to go with the machine, the grinder is the star of the show and the machine only plays a supporting role.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
AMubaslat Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2012 Posts: 16 Location: The World Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo Drip: Bosch
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 11:19am Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
NobbyR and callblacksmith,
Thank you very much for shedding some light on the matter, and so swiftly...
I am kind of relieved now knowing that the 2 machines are close in terms of reliability, capability of brewing excellent espresso and the relatively long time-to-brew.
That said, I'm inclined towards the Musica given the looks, the local support and the volumetric dosing (will good for the wife). I was told recently by someone (who happens to be working for the Rocket distributor in Dubai) that the Musica tends to pull slightly better espresso than that of the Rocket. He, however, had concerns as to the reliability of the Musica.
Two things, that I still want to know more about;
First, the milk steaming capabilities. How does the Musica deliver on that end? Does the cool-touch wand of the Rocket (or the lack thereof in Musica) affect the quality of microfoam?
Second, what pros and cons the double-boiler machines have over ones with heat exchange.
As for the grinder, I've almost settled on going with Mazzer Mini (doserless). If I'm to save a little on the grinder (around €700 for Mazzer), what other options with similar features do you recommend looking at?
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 12:16pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
I cannot speak to the Musica directly, but I can certainly say that Nuova Simonelli's quality has very much surprised me. I own an Oscar, which is the homelier cousin of the Musica and the Mac. The amount of abuse this machine has stood up to from former owners and repairs is nothing short of amazing. I'm already looking at my next machine to be either a Musica or a lightly used Mac 2000V Single Group.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,313 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 12:23pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
A lot of the same parts on Musica are on my Oscar. Oscar is built like a tank. I would probably trust Musica just based on that. Support is important and if you are not handy or somewhere that ordering parts would be hard to do I would also go to Musica for that reason. I have heard good things about the Rocket and would not knock it or turn it down. But if you are overseas I would probably go with one with local support.
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 459 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 6:59pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
The Rocket has one considerable advantage over the Musica, in that it has a rotary pump as opposed to a vibratory pump, not to mention the double boilers.
Both rotary and vibratory pumps produce the same results in the cup, but rotary pumps are much quieter when they are running. This is a matter of personal preference more than anything. If you decide to plumb in, a rotary pump is recommended because it is designed for that purpose, whereas if you plumb in a machine with a vibratory pump, a separate pressure regulator is required. If you are OK with using reservoir operation, then a vibration pump is fine.
I'm honestly afraid of making comparisons between heat exchanging and double boiler machines on this board, there have been flamewars over it. Both HX and DB machines are capable of making great coffee, both have their pros and cons.
Search this board for "HX vs DB" threads and you'll get plenty of information, that's all I have to say.
Both machines are capable of making great coffee.. Will your local equipment vendor service a Rocket machine?
AMubaslat Senior Member Joined: 5 Nov 2012 Posts: 16 Location: The World Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nuovo Simonelli - La Musica Grinder: Eureka Mignon Instantineo Drip: Bosch
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 10:34pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
I must have missed that key difference between the 2. But anyway, I have always planned to use the water reservoir in any machine I get. Noise is not going to be an issue for me.
I will dig deeper into the DB vs HX matter and see if this will give an edge to any of the contenders, given my usage pattern.
Rocket has no local support where I currently live (Kuwait). But still, I am coming from an electrical engineering background and have no issue servicing the Rocket my self if it can be justified, from both functionality and reliability perspective.
Thanks for the feedback thus far, and shall be looking for more opinions :)
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,607 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Nov 5, 2012, 11:59pm Subject: Re: Need Help:: NS Musica or Rocket R58
AMubaslat Said:
First, the milk steaming capabilities. How does the Musica deliver on that end? Does the cool-touch wand of the Rocket (or the lack thereof in Musica) affect the quality of microfoam?
With its 2 liter steam boiler the Musica has quite enough steam to froth milk for several cappuccinos and lattes. A cool touch steam wand can actually diminish steaming power, because the inner tube has a smaller diameter and lets through less steam.
AMubaslat Said:
Second, what pros and cons the double-boiler machines have over ones with heat exchange.
IMHO a dual boiler machine (R58) isn't necessariliy better than a HX machine (Musica), they just work differently.
Most DB machines have a PID which allows to exactly adjust brewing temperature. However, it's faster to change brewing temperature on the fly with a HX by flushing, for example. There's a current hype about DB machines, but most commercial machines are still HX. In the end, I don't think there's really a difference in the cup.
Maintenance like descaling can be a little more complicated on a DB.
AMubaslat Said:
As for the grinder, I've almost settled on going with Mazzer Mini (doserless).
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