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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > La Nuova Era...  
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dana_leighton
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dana_leighton
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 1,944
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Relax; Caferina...
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Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
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Roaster: Poppery I w/PID controller
Posted Fri Apr 26, 2013, 7:28pm
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

slybarman Said:

Can we please clean the thread back to JJCs first post?

Posted April 26, 2013 link

We generally only delete posts that are violations of the forum rules. In rare cases, if an individual member requests that we remove his or her post we will. Otherwise, the forums are left intact. Mark may decide differently, but the moderators are very hesitant to delete posts.

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,268
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Apr 26, 2013, 8:10pm
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

Dana I understand completely and as I said I will stay off the BDB thread,my choice . Tomorrow Im enjoying my 4th weekend with my new machine.  
Have a great weekend and enjoy the coffee you drink.
 

dana_leighton Said:

We generally only delete posts that are violations of the forum rules. In rare cases, if an individual member requests that we remove his or her post we will. Otherwise, the forums are left intact. Mark may decide differently, but the moderators are very hesitant to delete posts.

Posted April 26, 2013 link

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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,268
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 6:48am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

MDiddy is this still going on?



Gents, having an issue with my Cuadra II and not sure why.

About 4 days ago, I followed Eric's post on how to check the mushroom in an e61 for scale here:

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

Pulled everything and followed the procedure to a tee.  Didn't notice much scale, if any, at all.  Just a few tiny spots of corrosion where the chrome plating was replaced with a small green dot.  Cleaned everything off anyway and re-assembled.  Now, when I first turn the machine on each morning, the temp starts to climb to about 140 F, and then proceeds to drop.  I do a small flush (notice a second or two of no water) and then the temp starts to climb again and it reaches operating temperature no problem and stays there until I turn off the machine.  But this cycle repeats each morning.

This has been every morning now for the past 4 days.  I did a full descale yesterday to see if that would fix the issue, but no dice, same issue this morning.

Any idea what might be going on?
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Iluvdabean
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Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,268
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 6:56am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

I have experienced no handle issues and the plastic liner is fine. In fact its nicely made. If anything its small but think what it would look like if it was deeper. I
do cooling flushes into a small bowl and set a side when done. I definitely wouldn't use silicon seal on the nice stainless steel inside.
Update
I just today made 5 double lattes and inside stainless drip tray was dry. I use a small little bowl for cooling flush. When I empty main drip tray I slide it all out,put on dish towel and with two hands place four fingers down onto plastic side in front
while doing the same in back and lift it straight up.So easy its not funny.

pfn Said:

You could caulk up the insert to the tray, but the gap between the outer tray and the inner pan is so big that you'd have to use a ton of sealant and that would make it next to impossible to remove/replace if ever desired. The bead would also be highly visible, rather than in a few corners and the bottom hole of the shell.

As far as I can tell, haven't really checked, the top of the drip tray does not rest on the plastic liner, so fit should be no issue with the insert removed.

Yeah, the front of the drip tray is an annoyance, I'm tempted to take it with me to home depot and look for a nice, complementary cabinet handle to add a front lip. My heavier cups don't move, but my lighter items are starting to vibrate off the front...

Posted April 26, 2013 link

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SStones
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SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
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Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:08am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

Iluvdabean Said:

Gents, having an issue with my Cuadra II and not sure why.
Now, when I first turn the machine on each morning, the temp starts to climb to about 140 F, and then proceeds to drop.  I do a small flush (notice a second or two of no water) and then the temp starts to climb again and it reaches operating temperature no problem and stays there until I turn off the machine.  But this cycle repeats each morning.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

It's either the sacrificial relay or the breather/vacuum valve.
By "Do a small flush" are you talking about opening the steam or water valve?  Or are you talking about letting water out of the brew circuit/raising the control-handle?

If your breather/vacuum valve is staying closed overnight, then the boiler cools but is staying at a slightly positive pressure (Or the valve is staying shut because it's physically sticking)...  The next morning, the pump refills the boiler, reducing the airspace above the surface and therefore raising the pressure in the boiler. And with the element heating the water and pressurizing things, it reaches that 0.95 or whatever pressure needed to trigger the p-stat before it is actually getting anywhere near the proper operating temperature.  This "False Pressure" is released when you open the steam valve. The machine will heat normally when heating from the normal pressure.

Tomorrow, open your steam valve first, then turn the machine on.  If the pump comes on (to top up the boiler), let it finish, then close the steam valve.  If it heats up perfectly normally this way, you want to clean/descale your breather valve.  Possibly just replace it.
If it still does it's problem when started up this way, then it's your sacrificial relay building up carbon on its contacts. It works fine in the short, 30 second runs to keep a hot boiler hot, but in the initial 17+ minute boil-up, the carbon resistance across the points is getting so hot that the metal is actually changing shape and rigidity.  In this case, just look at the relay, you'll see blackness built up all over the inside of the plastic and probably won't be able to see through to the contacts at all.  Replace it.  If you plan on keeping the machine for a while, you might want to replace it now with a good quality, solid-state relay so that you won't be forever replacing the cheap little thing every year or so.
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slybarman
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slybarman
Joined: 3 Nov 2011
Posts: 366
Location: usa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 10:15am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

SStones Said:

It's either the sacrificial relay or the breather/vacuum valve.
By "Do a small flush" are you talking about opening the steam or water valve?  Or are you talking about letting water out of the brew circuit/raising the control-handle?

If your breather/vacuum valve is staying closed overnight, then the boiler cools but is staying at a slightly positive pressure (Or the valve is staying shut because it's physically sticking)...  The next morning, the pump refills the boiler, reducing the airspace above the surface and therefore raising the pressure in the boiler. And with the element heating the water and pressurizing things, it reaches that 0.95 or whatever pressure needed to trigger the p-stat before it is actually getting anywhere near the proper operating temperature.  This "False Pressure" is released when you open the steam valve. The machine will heat normally when heating from the normal pressure.

Tomorrow, open your steam valve first, then turn the machine on.  If the pump comes on (to top up the boiler), let it finish, then close the steam valve.  If it heats up perfectly normally this way, you want to clean/descale your breather valve.  Possibly just replace it.
If it still does it's problem when started up this way, then it's your sacrificial relay building up carbon on its contacts. It works fine in the short, 30 second runs to keep a hot boiler hot, but in the initial 17+ minute boil-up, the carbon resistance across the points is getting so hot that the metal is actually changing shape and rigidity.  In this case, just look at the relay, you'll see blackness built up all over the inside of the plastic and probably won't be able to see through to the contacts at all.  Replace it.  If you plan on keeping the machine for a while, you might want to replace it now with a good quality, solid-state relay so that you won't be forever replacing the cheap little thing every year or so.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

The first explanation might also coincide with his reduced steaming capacity by virtue of the boiler overfilling as you describe.

EricS posted up a nice photo of the assembly on HB. Thread found here:

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

slybarman: 269_lnec06.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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pfn
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Santa Clara, CA, US
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra II
Grinder: KA Proline w/ Mazzer Mini...
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 7:27pm
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

Iluvdabean Said:

I have experienced no handle issues and the plastic liner is fine. In fact its nicely made. If anything its small but think what it would look like if it was deeper.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

handle issue => oops, I'd meant the warming tray

as for the plastic liner, if you're more than a third or halfway full on the drip tray, you can't pour out of the spout without it getting all over.

a small bead of clear silicone would seal up the stainless drip tray invisibly and increase the capacity of the tray and cleanliness tremendously. Imo, the plastic liner sucks; it's barely better than a silvia drip tray, it's so messy.
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Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,268
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Apr 27, 2013, 8:29pm
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

Well I have no problems with it the way it is. Good luck my espresso brother.

pfn Said:

handle issue => oops, I'd meant the warming tray

as for the plastic liner, if you're more than a third or halfway full on the drip tray, you can't pour out of the spout without it getting all over.

a small bead of clear silicone would seal up the stainless drip tray invisibly and increase the capacity of the tray and cleanliness tremendously. Imo, the plastic liner sucks; it's barely better than a silvia drip tray, it's so messy.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

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MDiddy
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Oct 2012
Posts: 118
Location: PA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP
Drip: Cuisinart DCC-1200
Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 9:45am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

SStones Said:

It's either the sacrificial relay or the breather/vacuum valve.
By "Do a small flush" are you talking about opening the steam or water valve?  Or are you talking about letting water out of the brew circuit/raising the control-handle?

If your breather/vacuum valve is staying closed overnight, then the boiler cools but is staying at a slightly positive pressure (Or the valve is staying shut because it's physically sticking)...  The next morning, the pump refills the boiler, reducing the airspace above the surface and therefore raising the pressure in the boiler. And with the element heating the water and pressurizing things, it reaches that 0.95 or whatever pressure needed to trigger the p-stat before it is actually getting anywhere near the proper operating temperature.  This "False Pressure" is released when you open the steam valve. The machine will heat normally when heating from the normal pressure.

Tomorrow, open your steam valve first, then turn the machine on.  If the pump comes on (to top up the boiler), let it finish, then close the steam valve.  If it heats up perfectly normally this way, you want to clean/descale your breather valve.  Possibly just replace it.
If it still does it's problem when started up this way, then it's your sacrificial relay building up carbon on its contacts. It works fine in the short, 30 second runs to keep a hot boiler hot, but in the initial 17+ minute boil-up, the carbon resistance across the points is getting so hot that the metal is actually changing shape and rigidity.  In this case, just look at the relay, you'll see blackness built up all over the inside of the plastic and probably won't be able to see through to the contacts at all.  Replace it.  If you plan on keeping the machine for a while, you might want to replace it now with a good quality, solid-state relay so that you won't be forever replacing the cheap little thing every year or so.

Posted April 27, 2013 link

Sorry to take so long to reply guys.  Appreciate all the input here.

Per Eric's input, I've order a new brew valve from Chris's.  He thinks this may be my issue which makes sense being the machine was working fine until I took off the mushroom for inspection.  It was only after I reassembled that I started to have the issue.

To answer your question, by doing the small flush, I mean lifting the lever and flushing from the brew head.  The machine, after being turned on, starts to climb in temp, and, pretty consistantly, reaches about 140 F and then stalls.  I then open the brew valve, after a second or two water begins to flow, and the temp then continues to climb up into the 190 F range.  I then have to open the brew valve once more and the machine reaches it's normal temp of about 205 F.  This happens each and every morning, without fail.

Do you think it could still be the issue you're discussing here?  Or does the brew valve makes sense to you?
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MDiddy
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Joined: 3 Oct 2012
Posts: 118
Location: PA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP
Drip: Cuisinart DCC-1200
Posted Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:39am
Subject: Re: La Nuova Era Cuadra Owners Thread
 

Ok, so it's not the brew valve.  

I replaced the valve yesterday with the new one from Chris, using some of the Dow 111 as Eric had stated over on HB.  

Turned the machine on this morning, and, while it looked promising, the temp stalled out around 170 F and then started to fall again.  It climbed pretty steady until about 160 F, and then slowed down and stopped.  It then took two flushes for me to get the machine up to operating temp again.

I'm going to way until I use it again and try what SStones mentioned, and open the steam valve first to see if that fixes the issue.  If it does, I'll be replacing the vacuum valve.
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