JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Dec 16, 2012, 7:08pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
Let me ask you a question, if I may . . . (if I may not, then feel free to ignore this post).
scanfield Said:
I have a La Nuova Era Cuadra and it's been a good machine . . . That said, if I were going to buy a new machine tomorrow, I would probably pick the BDB only because after having had a HX machine for a while, I'd like to try a double boiler.
For example, if I get some coffee with instructions that call for 198 degree water, I'm only guessing with my machine. I think the BDB would be easier to be more consistent.
Probably not . . . or not by much. DB's need flushes, too, just as HX's do. And while I readily acknowledge that temperature matters -- can you really taste the difference between a shot pulled at 198°, versus 199°? And what happens if you "get some coffee with instructions that call for 198 degree water," but it turns out that you pull it at 199? Does the coffee self-destruct? Does the shot taste like $#|+? Or, what if it turns out you actually prefer the shot you pull at 199 over the one you pulled at 198?!?!?
I'm not picking on you, but it seems to me that a) there's no difference in the cup between shots pulled on an HX or a DB, but more importantly, b) I think we sometimes try to get so exact, so precise, when it's all up to our own individual palates, and not some scientific exactitude. WE -- you, me, and all the people here -- taste espresso with our own individual taste buds -- we aren't evaluating some scientific experiment, waiting for the results from the Gas Chromatograph to tell us the contents . . . we're tasting it, and what might taste great to you might not be what tastes great to me . . . and vice-versa.
Provide hot water in a reasonable manner. I don't know if a double boiler machine is any better. Before I bought this machine, I had envisioned using the hot water outlet for things like making tea. Now I find out that it's really only useful for descaling.
Probably not. But my machine seems to be a bit tempermental when it comes to cooling flushes. The window between sour and bitter seems to be about as wide as the zone between freezing and magma on my shower. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the ambient temperature.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,684 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Sun Dec 16, 2012, 9:53pm Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
scanfield Said:
Provide hot water in a reasonable manner. I don't know if a double boiler machine is any better. Before I bought this machine, I had envisioned using the hot water outlet for things like making tea. Now I find out that it's really only useful for descaling.
If you want hot water just pull some shots without coffee in the PF. The dilution rate of water on a small commercial or prosumer machine is pretty quick. I have a 2.5 l boiler, bigger than yours and a LOT bigger than the steam boiler on the BDB. When pulling water through the hot water wand, I can get about 10oz of water that is useable for something like tea, the first water comes out at boiling then quickly drops due to the influx of water into the boiler. If this happens so fast on a fairly large boiler, how fast is it going to happen on the MUCH smaller BDB steam boiler??????
scanfield Said:
The BDB has lots of neat stuff built in to it like a timer and pre-infusion capabilities. I think it would be fun to play with.
Most machines have preinfusion built into them. The BDB uses the pump being pulsed to do it while other machines such as those based on the E61 GH have a spring piston to perform the same function. Does your brew pressure gauge jump straight to 9 bar or does it take about 5 seconds to climb there? Yep, that is preinfusion.
A timer, simple, place one on the wall and it is as good as built in, better really because you can replace it should you need to without sending the machine in for service and a hugely higher price than a wall timer.
scanfield Said:
Probably not. But my machine seems to be a bit tempermental when it comes to cooling flushes. The window between sour and bitter seems to be about as wide as the zone between freezing and magma on my shower. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the ambient temperature.
I know that I can't taste 1 or even 2 deg difference, and I have tasted a lot of espresso. I get the results I like with a fairly constant routine, Flush 6 oz of water into my cup (2 pushes of my brew button on my volumetric machine) then dose tamp and pull the shot, in not much more time than it takes to read about it (a lot less than it takes to type about it) If the second or third shot of the session, just dose, tamp, bump the brew button to flush grounds and lock and pull. Very consistent results time after time. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Yes it was sorry I read it but did not realize it was the same person. I plan on calling first line tomorrow and see what they have to say about the Bezzera vs the la nuova. Thanks for the suggestion
scanfield Senior Member Joined: 21 Nov 2011 Posts: 170 Location: Texas Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: La Nuovo Era Cuadra Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 5:33am Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
One other factor to consider is that BDB is likely available locally compared to buying something over the internet. I know Williams-Sonoma sells them and one reason I would consider buying from them is that you could get the machine and have a period of time where if you don't like it, you can return it for a full refund. I'd still check with them if you buy it to make sure though.
1st-Line doesn't let you do this and they do make it very clear before you buy it what the terms are. You sign an agreement saying you are buying a commercial machine and returns are not accepted (if my memory is correct).
That said, I haven't heard of anybody having a bad experience with 1st-Line. I have only positive things to say about them.
All of this is reverse if you happen to live within driving distance of 1st-Line. They would win hands down in that case.
washburned Senior Member Joined: 23 Nov 2012 Posts: 29 Location: napa Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra II Grinder: Baratza vario
Posted Mon Dec 17, 2012, 9:22am Subject: Re: Decision Time Breville or Nuova Era
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
+1
+1,000!
My first impulse is to say "no." Then again, it may be, but I'd prefer the Bezzera BZ07 for $100 more. (Note: I always add 10% to people's budget, because I figure it's in reach.)
MY advise to to talk with 1st-Line. Ask them about the differences between the Nuova Era and the Bezzera, and what provides the biggest bang for the buck.
I just got off the phone with them. The person I spoke with owned and prefered the Nuova in part because of the e-61 group head and then the ascetics. Both of which the Bezzera does not.
cafeespresso Said:
I don't think either is a wrong choice. I 'upgraded' from HX to the Breville, and I can tell you the Breville is a great machine. On the Breville I have gained more consistency on the shots, but I'm still struggling with the steam. Like everything, there is a learning curve.
Also, where are you getting the Breville at 900? Amazon? I think that deal is dead.
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