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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Gaggia Baby Twin...  
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ElvisVoltare
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Boulder City, NV
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

qu1nn,

Sorry to hear it. (Support group may actually be necessary). Not the thermostat, huh?  I was sure that you were onto something there; I mean, the logic seemed to make sense. Thanks for the info on the "pins"  (it would have been obvious if you had movement when you reconnected the leads) didn't seem right to me either, but I doubt it has anything to do with our similar problem (just something else I probably have to fix - if I don't throw this thing down the stairs!).

I'm at a loss.

Does your twin still brew OK or do you get the disco lights a few moments into the shot? I'm guessing that this condition is related (at least in mine) and indicates a lack of something: pressure, temperature, water in the boiler? I'd love to get this thing fixed, but like you, without a lead, I'm forced to start randomly replacing parts that could potentially be the culprit.  That could get pricey pretty quick. Hope someone out there has some ideas for us.

Gregg
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ElvisVoltare
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Nov 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Boulder City, NV
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

whoops, accidentally used my real name instead of avatar, sorry...
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 6:01pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

yeah.
I can brew shots all day with no problem
same with hot water.

Its just the steam craps out after 15ish seconds... I can shut the steam off, and back on and get another 15s of full blast steam!.  When this happens the current draw of the machine drops (from 7.3A down to 0.2A) at the same time....
Its just weird how It works for 15ish seconds....

I will probably blow out the rotary switch...making cappos.

regards
qu1nn
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Mon Jan 7, 2013, 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

My understanding of a fuse on Gaggia is that is just that, a fuse, not a re-settable stat.  If the fuse is intact it should have end to end continuity.  In not, then a fuse could be out.  I have not actually layed my hands on a Twin, only seen the diagrams.  Interesting tstat on the upper boiler, where my Classic steam stat resides, part 21.

Then there is part 65, which you replaced, on the thermoblock which should control steam.

Is the thermoblock working or are you getting hot water to steam from the boiler?

You have 3 elements to check resistance in if I see it correctly, 2 on the boiler and then the one on the thermoblock.

If I read correctly, in the bottom wiring diagram parts 4 and 9 in the lower L corner are fuses mentioned.

Click Here (www.partsguru.com)

Thinking outside the box, the boiler, pump, and 3 way are basically like a Classic.  Too bad that there is not a simple way to wire in simple switches and lose the thermoblock, or unplumb it, and have almost a Classic, the trouble free part.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Tue Jan 8, 2013, 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Looks like the part on the thermoblock is modello G5 229C Mircotemp  Thermodisc

Microtemp Thermal Cutoffs G5 Series - datasheet here:  
Click Here (www.thermodisc.com)

per the website:
Designed for higher voltage and current applications than the G4, the G5 series MICROTEMP®
TCO is rated for operating currents up to 20 amps @ 250VAC and 277 VAC (25 amps @ 120VAC).
Similar in appearance to the G4 series, the G5 series has a different internal construction designed
for interrupting higher currents and withstanding higher temperatures.

I am in the process of trying to find the part for purchase, through the manufacturer via their distributors: Click Here (www.thermodisc.com)
I couldnt find anything at digikey or mouser that was even close....


Question:
I am wondering if the problems that people have with the baby twin and the "weak" steam, could be cured by going from the 229 deg C to 240 deg C
any thoughts on this?


I may try this in the next couple of days:
1)  Another thing I was thinking was to just run the machine with the thermoblock exposed, with a multimeter across the thermal cutoff.  I would imagine that while the steam is coming out (for the first 15s, and the current draw is 7.3A) I would see some low voltage (AC) with that voltage rapidly increasing higher  to 120 VAC when the steam dies (as the cutoff opens up, stopping current flow to the thermoblock, which correlates to the dropping in the overall current draw of the system to 0.2A ).  If this happens I would think that it definitely has to be the thermal cutoff on the thermoblock as being the culprit.... (at least that is what I am talking myself into...)
2) I should then be able to verify by shorting out the thermal cutoff and retest; monitoring current draw and checking how long the steam works...
obviously I would want to replace the part ....kinda wish I had a infrared thermometer (to see how hot things are getting) ... may be a good excuse to pick up a new toy....


any additional comments are definitely welcome....

regards and thanks for the support.
qu1nn
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Tue Jan 8, 2013, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

I may be missing something here.  On page 1 of that document the operating principle says that once it opens, it must be repalced. It is a fuse, so working or blown.  Your description is more like the bimetal tstat clicking open and closed.  I thought you replaced that part.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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qu1nn
Senior Member
qu1nn
Joined: 3 Jan 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Buffalo, NY
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia New Baby 06 Twin
Posted Wed Jan 9, 2013, 4:58am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

D4F:
Ha you are correct. Missed that, jumped right to the table of specs.

My brain is not functioning.  
I am wondering if it could still be "intermittent", kind of like a partial failure that is temperature sensitive.

I will try to crack the machine open tonight to see what the resistance is across it is while powered down.

I did replace the thermostat (175 deg, Gaggia PN 189428300)... on the schematic Part #65 on 1/7/13... no change of course.

Thanks for responding
qu1nn
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 9, 2013, 11:29am
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

I have not seen a good description of how the Twin works, but is seems that since steam is produced in the thermoblock, you would need almost continuous heat on to the thermoblock and almost continuous pump run to keep water in it.  Is that correct?

I also get that idea from this thread, a similar problem.
Click Here (coffeegeek.com)

Unfortunately, there is also a "board" of electronics that could malfunction.

If you can safely run the system out where you can measure, then check the thermoblock element for function when trying to steam.  If it gets heat, is it also getting water input?  Do you hear the pump running during steaming.  What shuts off first?  If the pump turns off, then as I understand, the thermoblock tstat would reach limit and click off.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Toddsalzman
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2004
Posts: 31
Location: NY
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Brewtus II
Grinder: Mazzer
Posted Wed Jan 9, 2013, 12:17pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

I see in your first post you said that: " Never a problem before, but now after about 20-30sec, it starts fizzling out and all the buttons on the keypad start blinking"  

The blinking is what we call a "ventilate" error. This means that for some reason the water flow is to low.  It could be one of many things. I would first check the seal under the reservoir.  Then open up the  flow meter and check the inlet side (there is a small orifice) to see if there is debris.   Give all the tubing  a good look for any kinks or anything that looks unusual.   Time how long it take to run 8 oz hot water through the steam wand, it should be around 24 to 30 seconds.

This should get you going in the right direction.

Let me know how you make out and we can go to the next step if necessary.

Todd Salzman
Whole Latte Love
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,870
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jan 9, 2013, 12:53pm
Subject: Re: Gaggia Baby Twin troubles
 

Todd, thanks for the expert help.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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