johnboddie Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 147 Location: Virginia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Brasilia Mini Classic,... Grinder: Rocky, KitchenAid Pro Drip: Cuisinart (non-grinding)
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:12am Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
These are both superb machines. The Elektra has a large boiler and the Duetto has two boilers, one for steam. Six cappucino's (or twelve for that matter) should be no problem for either machine.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:07pm Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
The massive 6l boiler of the Elektra will have NO problem steaming for as long as you want to go. The II has a 1.6 l steam only boiler and should be OK, for what you want to do.
A personal choice, for me, I would go with the T1 in a heart beat over the Duetto II but YMMV.
It all really comes down to how you like to work, the power available to you (the T1 requires 20 amps) and which you like the looks of the best.
The Elektra is a no frills, full on commercial machine with no reservations while in my opinion the Duetto is a no doubt high end prosumer machine.
I am not taking anything away from the II it is a very solid machine, but I am a long time commercial or go home guy so my choice between these two is for the T1
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
They are both fine machines and if I were buying new and had no bones about a HX vs DB the Elektra is dang fine choice. I don't know that i would trade in a Duetto that I already own, and i do own a Duetto like you, for an Elektra though. It could very well be that the Elektra can kick its butt in steam department but all I can speak to is what the Duetto can do since that is the one I have. I entertain up to 20 pretty regularly and can easy keep up with my Duetto no trouble.
The quality of steam is measured by a precent of water in the steam. Dry steam has no water but that is just theory really because the instant you crack open a steam valve the steam molecules start bouncing around and cooling off as they escape and condensation starts to happen. Izzo says your steam boiler at 262 degrees will be at 1.5 bar of pressure so the steam should be dry. When you crack the valve everything that happens after that point that makes the difference. The longer the trip through the tubing and to the tip the more the quality of the steam will be reduced. The temp of the tubing between the boiler and the tip through which your steam has to pass makes big difference. The temp of the tubing is impacted by the ambient temp of the room and the other internals of your machine. The Duetto has "don't burn me" wands so it might be that it builds more moister on its journey than it would through a "burn me" wand like I think is used on the Elektra. If you purge your steam wand on the Duetto slow enough it warms it up real nice it will improve the quality of the steam according to the MadTamper and I have found this to be true in my case at least.
It's been a long time since the thermodynamic section of my high school physics class but there you have it for what its worth which is likely very little, :)
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,716 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:34pm Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
Also consider the steam pressure is related to altitude. If you're not getting close to 1.5 bar pressure, and feel you want to, you can bump up the boiler temp a few degrees. You should consult the table in the Duetto manual (which you probably have already downloaded from CCS). Fortunately, there is an OPV to prevent you from screwing up your machine if you go too high.
I too found TheMadTamper's posted experiences to be very helpful.
ryandunlap Senior Member Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Posts: 104 Location: Syracuse, NY
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:56pm Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
Well I already sold my Deutto so getting something new is a necessity. (I didn't sell to get a new one, I had intended to quite. Don't hate me and at least I'm back.)
Also, I'm not hung-up on HX vs. Dual. What I am stuck on though is I've yet been able to duplicate the quality of cappuccinos I get at someplace like Intelligentsia (Barefoot Coffee Roasters, in my case.) I started with the Pasquini Livia, and sold that soon thereafter for a Rocket Giotto. I loved the Giotto (it was a big upgrade in my opinion), and when I later upgraded to the Duetto, I didn't feel like it was a major upgrade. (The benefits of a dual-boiler were nice.)
I'm educated/skilled enough to feel I have good technique, and don't get me wrong, the cappuccinos are super yummy and have (overrated) latte art. But the quality still doesn't compare to what I find in a third-wave bar. I've always concluded that it's a result of my milk. That my foam isn't as spot on. (Admittedly I use only whole milk and not 5-6% specialty milk they often use in these bars.)
So now that I have to buy a new machine, I'm thinking moving my price point from 2k to something greater. So I guess my question is, if a Duetto II is your current machine, what's the next step up?
(By the way, I'm using a Vario grinder. And, as discussed in a different thread, a Lever machine is out of the question---maybe the next next upgrade!)
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 1:38pm Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
ryandunlap Said:
Well I already sold my Deutto so getting something new is a necessity. (I didn't sell to get a new one, I had intended to quite. Don't hate me and at least I'm back.)
Also, I'm not hung-up on HX vs. Dual. What I am stuck on though is I've yet been able to duplicate the quality of cappuccinos I get at someplace like Intelligentsia (Barefoot Coffee Roasters, in my case.) I started with the Pasquini Livia, and sold that soon thereafter for a Rocket Giotto. I loved the Giotto (it was a big upgrade in my opinion), and when I later upgraded to the Duetto, I didn't feel like it was a major upgrade. (The benefits of a dual-boiler were nice.)
I'm educated/skilled enough to feel I have good technique, and don't get me wrong, the cappuccinos are super yummy and have (overrated) latte art. But the quality still doesn't compare to what I find in a third-wave bar. I've always concluded that it's a result of my milk. That my foam isn't as spot on. (Admittedly I use only whole milk and not 5-6% specialty milk they often use in these bars.)
So now that I have to buy a new machine, I'm thinking moving my price point from 2k to something greater. So I guess my question is, if a Duetto II is your current machine, what's the next step up?
(By the way, I'm using a Vario grinder. And, as discussed in a different thread, a Lever machine is out of the question---maybe the next next upgrade!)
For me the next stop is a maybe a GS3 but more likely a Synesso Hydra or Speedster for my primary machine and those are in the ship needs to come in category. Since I have two leaving for college I really don't see it anytime soon. If someone steals my Duetto I would have to consider the Elektra, Cimbali Junior Casa DT1 but would likely make the same choice and go with the Duetto again.
I have kicked around a USED Faema Legend as a second machine for my regular bar area. That would be strictly a second machine entertaining and just because that area of my house if retro 60s by design. I missed on two group that went for $2500 on ebay darn it. A commercial lever is another might be fun to play around on for a while as a second machine.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,671 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Jan 11, 2012, 1:42pm Subject: Re: Is Elektra Sixties T1 an Upgrade from an Alex Duetto II?
Well, this is the only machine I feel I would ever upgrade to, after you hit the commercial quality machines, you pretty much know what you want and like. I do not NEED to upgrade but if I did, a single group one of these would be at the top of my list. http://www.synesso.com/default.aspx?ID=8 http://www.synesso.com/default.aspx?ID=7
EDIT, John, it seems that we are pretty much on the same "dream" list when our ships come in!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Just to chime in... the new Elektra T1 machines have steam tips with holes that are 1mm whereas the older style had 1.5mm holes. With the former 1.5mm holes, it was almost impossible to steam small amounts of milk.
A customer called today to comment on his just recently received T1, and he stated that the T1 produced better, sweeter frothed milk than his former Elektra SemiAutomatica machine. I was a little surprised to hear this. Not sure what milk he was using. I then explained the reason why. Second, he was stating that the T1 does not get really hot as previously reported on older machines. The reason for this is that there have been some design changes to keep the machine cooler.
Sincerely, Jim Piccinich Business Partner 1st-line Equipment, LLC www.1st-line.com
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