Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 6:21am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
SStones Said:
Does this place you got it from have an R58 in their showroom? Does it make the noise? Can you get the salesperson's attention long enough to have them listen to yours and theirs one after the other? I'm not saying that I don't believe you, I know I sound like I'm doubting you but I am only doubting the likelihood of two barely related machines having damaged rotary pumps when brand-new. Anyway, keep posting your findings.
Two bad machines can happen. I went thru 3 bad machines not an R58 back to back, before that another machine from totaly different vendor who is highly regarded with loose screws, bent OPV and scratches. So yes it can happen, you would think the vendor would have gone over Italo's second machine with a fine tooth comb before they had him pack it up, and drive back home 2 hours again.
SStones Senior Member Joined: 24 Nov 2012 Posts: 209 Location: Canada Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket... Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best Vac Pot: No :( Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 6:49am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Yup. That's not good and it is likely to get worse. The pump should be removed from the motor and checked for end-play, wear and feel. The motor should be run with the pump removed to check for run-out and noise (Should be darn quiet). Have your dealer (Or a professional they suggest) check into that. I am no longer doubting two bad pumps in a row.
Italo2275 Senior Member Joined: 9 Jan 2013 Posts: 96 Location: Toronto Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 7:01am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Ok Guys I give up, According to Mr Andrew this is a normal noise, now I have to decide to either live with it or just go with different machine.
Hi Roberto
Again I do not think that there is anything wrong with the machine and do not think the pump noise is anything different than it should be.
If you came here and listened to the machines being tested you would find the noise is normal and certainly much quieter than you would find with a vibration pump machine My machine at home makes that exact noise which i consider normal as do our Evoluzione machines which use the same rotary pump and motor
The level on noise is constant with any rotary pump machine I believe While I can not comment on what has happened with idrink I do believe the machine is as it should be
If you are in Italy at any stage we would welcome your visit
If I can be of further help please do not hesitate to contact me
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 7:38am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
I have listened to several R58's and other similar rotary pump machines live and on the web, they were quite. They did not exhibit that sound, so to me that is not normal. Maybe they sound normal to Rocket since maybe they have a bad batch of motors/bearings.
Some vendors stopped selling these machines due to alleged shipping iissues, know of one company that tried shipping on pallets and used special foam. They recently announced they also stopped selling this machine. I was also told by several vendors that the 58 was also experiencing quality QC issues. From what i have read the track record so far has been spotty.
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 511 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 7:42am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
If that's "normal" how come other R58s don't have the noises yours have?? And then the tech says he fixed it b/c it had a bent motor.... only to have the second machine make noises?
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 8:00am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
When CC first started selling the Duetto 2 there where some issues that a few delt with. I can imagine that before CC decided to ship the Duetto with one pressure gauge not connected more then a few got the machine and had one gauge not work and water under the machine. There was also so fit and finish issues that some could not live with or was worse on their machine then another. Now there is the Duetto 3 that addressed those earlier potential issues. I can say without a doubt that my Duetto 3 is not as quiet as the GS3's pump which was darn near silent.
Roberto would you say the second machine makes less of that awful noise? The first one sounds terrible but even though I hear it in the second machine it doesn't make me cringe, I am not standing there though. Most importantly I trust my techs, if they said jumping off a bridge would help my machine I would do it and at times I think they practice voodoo to make something big go wrong so I will bring them some BBQ in. Seriously the techs have kept me up and running for years of self repairs with prompt help, I don't think I would have bought a $2500 machine with out them backing me. Seems like you are not getting this kind of service.
So it sounds like you would like to have the R58 work for you, I imagine where you bought it from would like that as well, the problem seems they are not getting to the bottom of the issue, darn shame. My place has a customer for life, I hope you can get that service as well.
I agree starting an owners thread would be a good thing for you and definitely for those looking at machines in this range. I commend you on not going down the path of dragging the vendor into this, that never goes well for posters and you have gone out of your way to find a solution. Sorry for your frustrations.
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 924 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 8:31am Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7, Breville DB
Italo2275 Said:
Thanks for the reply and explanation. The reason i thought the water drip was weird is becuase it did not happen in the first machine I got.But if you say it is normal then ok. As for the noise how do you explain 2 machines the same? Actuallly in the second one it starts and then as the shot pulls goes away.Better then the first but not right.
I don't have an explanation for why 2 machines are like that and I don't need one..... I just know it's not right, I don't know what the problem is, but I DO know it's not right. I have reviewed/tested more than 40 espresso machines over the last 7 years and seen 100s of others. A rotary pump machine should not make that noise. They might rattle, they might rub against a bit of metal, the motor mounts may come loose, but when that happens they don't sound like that.
I think you would be better off simply RMA ing the machine and get something else you're going to have more confidence in......because I suspect you're not ever going to be entirely happy with a Rocket R58 after everything that's happened. The Duetto might be a good start in that respect if you can set aside some of the things you don't like about it. My prototype is nearly 6 years old and no faults yet after 30,000 hours of operation..I also consider it to be a better machine.
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