alekk Senior Member Joined: 7 Dec 2012 Posts: 22 Location: Paris Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 4:45pm Subject: "forgiving" machine
I was wondering why some espresso machines are more "forgiving" than others in the sense that they can produce good espresso from a wider range of grind/temperature/etc ... For example, I have read at several places that the Europiccola is "not forgiving" when it comes to grind. Is it in fact because the temperature varies a lot between shots?
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 658 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60 Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jan 12, 2013, 9:27pm Subject: Re: "forgiving" machine
I would imagine commercial machines are extremely forgiving, given that they often dose volumetrically and have computer temperature control. They're designed to be used quickly, in high volume, but a minimally-trained barista, so I would (hope) they are.
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 4:54pm Subject: Re: "forgiving" machine
I was wondering the same thing. For example, high percentage of sites selling the Rancilio Silvia say that it requires a precise grind - I don't see this very often with other machines. Could it be that it is because it's sort of an entry-level machine for espresso without pressurized PFs?
I was thinking that all non-pressurized PF applications/machines would be similarly less forgiving, and if not, would like to know the technical details of implementing "forgiving".
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 8,151 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Jan 13, 2013, 5:29pm Subject: Re: "forgiving" machine
Both ends of the spectrum are more forgiving. The low end machines are not temp stable and come with pressurized portafiltersso the grind is not so critical but because of the poor stability and poor grounds the espresso machine produces so so at best espresso.
On the other end the high dollar machines produce great espresso but at the price of a nice used car.
In the middle you have machines that are fussy but produce or can produce great espresso but at the cost of greater skill on your part.
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
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