Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,058 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 10:49am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Oh that’s cool about freezing beans,be happy and enjoy the new machine. There are endless debates about freezing with the predominant opinion favoring non freezing. I guess when I find anything as fresh as fresh, that comes from the freezer, I would do it again but I left that about ten years ago. Its things like this that hijack threads so yeah I say just live and let live. Im seriously considering a new QuickMill Silvano. The Gaggia's been sweet. Ive been home roasting a long time. Hey if you havent tried this espresso its one of my favs.
I have posted more details for tests on freezing then Miss Erin and what has been tested at HB and written about is far better study then a one off experiment with no details (i believe she did it twice since the first time had less details). I have been freezing for five years in a deep freezer, I will stick with my methods for long term storage of my roasts.
This discussion belongs in one of the hundreds of threads that go nowhere. I mean no offense just watched this discussion go down hill to many times taking a thread way off subject.
Yep that line breaks in shipping if they don't disconnect it. Getting a brand new toy that you cant play with right away sucks way worse than having to hook that up.
germantownrob Said:
I have to hook the drain up to the drip tray even if I have to take straight down to a bucket in the basement. The accumulation of brown debris filled water drives me crazy not to mention that a steam wand purge into a tray more then 1/2 filled will send dirty water every where.
Yep. Go all the way though and plumb the supply in. Yes Yes i know, "Just saying" :) I keep a package of pipe cleaners handy and when i do my weekly scrub I ream out the outlet from the little little black drip pan under the the big stainless one.
germantownrob Said:
I would prefer the drip tray gave more head room to the group and was 2 inches deeper but hooking up the drain will at least take care of my OCD and a naked will help with head room.
That was my number one complaint, at first. I have learned to work around it and never give it a second thought now. And I use my spouted a good bit. I generally dial in a new batch on the naked then switch to the spouted. I just prefer the consistency of the doubles that way.
How is the coffee?
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 5:46pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Well John the skies have not opened with the hand of God reaching down to grace my shot, yet. My very first shot I drank made me do the John Belushi eye brow raise. To be honest it has been just to easy to get consistent very good results, with no drama or second guessing of my resultsand as a result I seem to have more time on my hands. Once my two pounds of Aleco from SMs has aged enough I will play with brew temperatures for some comparisons.
Drain line, supply line will be hooked up as soon as I figure out if the water filtration and softener is the one I will get and what exactly I need to do to get the drain line into the dishwasher grey water line.
The the drip tray and head space is only a small complaint, once I find different sized shot glasses that will fit the purpose and learn to slide my cap cups in so they don't bash against the spouts it will soon be forgotten. I stopped using a naked after about a year or so of use, I am in no rush to get one, I may try just taking the spouts off for now.
Makes sense that that little copper line could get damaged with road vibration, when my Vario travels it needs re calibration after a couple hundred miles in a cushy van suspension.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Tue Jan 15, 2013, 6:56pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Fantastic! If God takes note of your espresso please do let us know. I have gotten pretty use to the Rattleware shot glasses for long blacks and the like.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,683 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 7:03am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Really, the don't freeze advice again?
It is true that there are many discussions on this point but I disagree that the consensus is not to freeze.
It really depends on how it is done. A giant bag, open in the freezer, nope, not going to work as the link you provided points out, it messes with the moisture in the bean, let alone they absorb flavors.
Sealed when fresh, excess air removed and deep frozen then thawed before opening the bag, does not harm them, not any that I can taste nor that a lot of "coffee gurus" can either.
The only way to know if it makes a difference to you is to try it yourself. My finding is that when frozen fresh I see the beans age about two days worth for every week in the freezer. I have been freezing beans for years. I freeze when the beans get to me and at the end of a month in the freezer, I still get great, gloppy extractions from the beans but then YMMV.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 9:58am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Wayne I am a true believer in freezing but I have come to the conclusion not every bodies taste buds are the same nor is every bodies freezer the same. I usually buy Primal cuts of beef and butcher them myself, both of my freezer/fridge units are less then 3 years old, I will not freeze meats or put anything I will keep for more then two weeks in these freezers. Defrost cycles mean a home fridge/freezer can not maintain a steady temp, no matter how mild the temp change is it still exists. My deep freezer on the other hand maintains a constant -10f temp and there is no defrost cycle, maybe once every five years I need to manually defrost it, my meats will last over a year in deep freeze. I apply the same reasoning to freezing coffee in the deep freezer. When hurricane Sandy came through here I lost power for 82hrs, I kind of figured the food in the deep freezer may be toast, opened it up minutes after the power came on and the thermometer read -6f, the regular fridges where ok as well but I had put 5-10lbs of ice in each compartment and only 1/2 of it was left in the freezer.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:10am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
A person can go a bit crazy watching the boiler lights switch back and forth and reading the temp displays switch.
Watching the 3-4f change makes one wonder if hooking up to 20 amp would maintain a tighter temp control so it has been 20 min since turning the steam boiler off, brew boiler is set at 200 and the display fluctuates from 199-201f, not bad, much better then a 199-203f swing.
Now to try 20 amp. Who knew GFIs could accept 20 amp plugs, just need to make sure that outlet has a 20 amp breaker and if anything else is on the circuit. Success, now wait and see. 20 amp mode with brew boiler and steam boiler on the temp swing is 199-201f but there is a difference in the lights, seems with out sharing power they can each come on for shorter amount of times with less swing. The huge difference at 20 amp is how quickly after brew and steam the machine can recover. Well I can't have the cord stretching across the counter so back to 15amp mode for now.
Other then the controller that runs my smoker I have no experience with PIDs. A swing of 2f seems fine to me but 4f is something I can do with an HX for the first shot of the day on auto pilot. I understand I am looking at an offset from a measurement of the boiler temp ( brew boiler is all I care about the steam can fluctuate 4f all it wants) but is my assumption correct that it is fluctuating 4 degrees in there? Is the group stabil enough that those numbers are meaningless? Am I just driving myself crazy watching the numbers?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,723 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 11:33am Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
glad to hear about your tests. I find it hard to believe the group temp really fluctuates that much, so I've given up worrying about it. I figure the boiler temp is kept on average where I have it set. I would actually like to hear Chris' answer to your question. I did one time ask him if he thought I would benefit from installing an E61 thermometer and he said no. However, in the end, it's all what ends up in your mouth, so...if my shots are too sour or bitter, I adjust grind or set brew temp accordingly depending on bean blend. I'm just now starting to learn to work with Jim Schulman's recommendations on adjusting grind and dose for flavor profile tweaks...ah, but there's so much to learn with this wonderful hobby/addiction! :)
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,018 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 2:55pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
Ron I have an email in to Mary to ask around for an answer. My results in the cup do not taste of a 4f change but I will reserve my opinion of that until I can run 2lbs of same coffee through over a 3 day test. An Eric's thermometer sure would clear this up for me quickly.
I think my machine is getting self conscious, it is back in 15amp with both boilers on and it hasn't gone outside of a 2f swing for the last hour even with a flush to challange it. Artificial intelligence?
Edit: not a matter of challenging the brew boiler, but pull some steam and the 3-4f fluctuation is back.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Wed Jan 16, 2013, 9:44pm Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3.0 on its way to me
I suspect your driving yourself nuts looking at the gauge.
Using a display that read only in hole numbers really is not sufficient to measure of 4 degree swing between say 198 to 202. You really need to logging thermometer capable of measuring in .1 degree encasements, enter the scace. The bad news is you can drive yourself crazy with a scace ask me I know. :)
I would expect that the dead band would be greater in 15 vs 20 amp mode. In 20 amp the PID channel has to decide what to do then kicks the burner on at will. In 15 amp mode it has to decide then wait its turn to kick on the burner If it were not so there would be no need to have a 20 amp mode in the first place.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
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