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auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > auber pid from...  
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ggcadc
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ggcadc
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: QM Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer mini E, Virtuoso,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3 cup
Drip: All of them
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013, 12:08am
Subject: auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
 

Can I use the paid from my gaggia on the Alexia? I don't see any reason why I couldn't, however I think it may be worth it to get the watlow kit that has been designed to work with this machine... Thoughts?
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dspear99ca
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Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 93
Location: BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Coffee
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013, 8:20am
Subject: Re: auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
 

ggcadc Said:

Can I use the paid from my gaggia on the Alexia? I don't see any reason why I couldn't, however I think it may be worth it to get the watlow kit that has been designed to work with this machine... Thoughts?

Posted January 25, 2013 link

Short answer = yes.  a PID is a PID is a PID.  Along with the SSR they control the boiler heat element.  The only part(s) that is machine-specific is the thermocouple mount, and that is the only issue you will run into.  If you have a ring terminal on the end it's pretty easy to find somewhere to attach it to the boiler.  May take a bit of imagination or (gasp!) drilling and tapping a hole on the boiler body someplace (worst case scenario).
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dyqik
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Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:18am
Subject: Re: auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
 

What you may have to do once installed and basically working is to retune the PID parameters - the Alexia boiler's thermal mass is quite likely a bit bigger than the Gaggia's and the heating elements will have different power outputs.  It might take a little research to find a parameter set that will give stable operation along with the fastest recovery times (slower recovery times is easy though).  I suspect that the data is out there on the net somewhere, and if not, there are procedures for tuning PID temperature controllers from scratch using measurements on the system to be controlled.
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D4F
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Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,023
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013, 10:38am
Subject: Re: auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
 

The 1/32 din PID from Auber as part of a "kit," has a couple of tweaks to make it better for home espresso, such as faster cold start.  You can read that under the Gaggia PID kit info on the site, and it is "not the generic PID."  Those parameters are something added to the generic SYL 1512 IIRC, I asked before I got a PID.  I do not know if the KIT parameters are machine specific, or if most kits share those parameters.  If a PID and not from a kit then all is setable by the operator.  Here is a very similar instruction to Auber, almost identical.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/PID/PID_Manual_2.pdf

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dspear99ca
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Jan 2013
Posts: 93
Location: BC, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Coffee
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Fri Jan 25, 2013, 1:16pm
Subject: Re: auber pid from gaggia on quickmill alexia
 

D4F Said:

The 1/32 din PID from Auber as part of a "kit," has a couple of tweaks to make it better for home espresso, such as faster cold start.  You can read that under the Gaggia PID kit info on the site, and it is "not the generic PID."  Those parameters are something added to the generic SYL 1512 IIRC, I asked before I got a PID.  I do not know if the KIT parameters are machine specific, or if most kits share those parameters.  If a PID and not from a kit then all is setable by the operator.  Here is a very similar instruction to Auber, almost identical.

http://users.rcn.com/erics/PID/PID_Manual_2.pdf

Posted January 25, 2013 link

I have a background in electronics and, while I am sure that there are in fact custom PID's, I am dubious as to whether or not the home espresso market would bear the cost of developing and manufacturing a custom PID such as they describe.  More likely they have pre-programmed a pseudo-generic PID with parameters suited to home-brewing and perhaps even to unique characteristics of specific machines.  There are some added features such as pre-infusion, but nothing that can't be programmed with a run-of-the-mill PID module that includes a time-based multi-step programming feature.  The PID's that I have used, generic ones not sold specifically for coffee machine regulation, are all more or less the same.  There are various variables that you can set, such as thermocouple type, temp offset, modes of operation, alarm points, etc.  Almost all of the ones produced in the last 10 years have an "autotune" feature that you run once you've set the variables as best you can and have installed the load (SSR) and temp probe.  Autotune runs through some heat/cool cycles and tunes the parameters for maximum performance.  

That having been said, I am considering adding a PID to my machine, and I will probably buy an Auber, just because it is labor-intensive for me to build or buy a suitable enclosure for it that matches my machine and cut and terminate all of the various wires.  Their kits are good value for the money.

Dave
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