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Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Trying to Decide...  
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Italo2275
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 1:53pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

So I have some updates.
I had the luck to play with the Brevil DB as I know someone who works for them. Homestly I was not impressed with it. We went though a bag of coffe trying to figure out why we could not get good crema, we even called the Tech support and they said it might be the Grinder, but I do not think so, becuase the finest setting was bottoming out the machine. Too much work and at then end of the day I do not like it. We tried differentg coffee and still same result.

So I still want to get one of the ones in my main post.
I spoke to the IDRINKCOFFE guys and they reccomended the r58 as they say it performs very well. They did mention that on the Alex duetto eventyally the PID burns out do to the locatio of where it is located.

I think any of the 3 machines I would be happy with, but now it is a matter on wich to make the investment in.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:14pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Italo2275 Said:

So I have some updates.
I had the luck to play with the Brevil DB as I know someone who works for them. Homestly I was not impressed with it. We went though a bag of coffe trying to figure out why we could not get good crema, we even called the Tech support and they said it might be the Grinder, but I do not think so, becuase the finest setting was bottoming out the machine. Too much work and at then end of the day I do not like it. We tried differentg coffee and still same result.

So I still want to get one of the ones in my main post.
I spoke to the IDRINKCOFFE guys and they reccomended the r58 as they say it performs very well. They did mention that on the Alex duetto eventyally the PID burns out do to the locatio of where it is located.

I think any of the 3 machines I would be happy with, but now it is a matter on wich to make the investment in.

Posted January 29, 2013 link

You would be happy with a Duetto with a PID that will eventually burn out or a BDB that you werent impressed with and didnt like?
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 522
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:35pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

DavecUK Said:

The Breville does look an interesting and well thought out machine. I'm not sure how "repairable" it is, I'm sure any part can be bought, but there might come a point where maintaining it becomes very expensive. However, your view of DB E61 designs is a little distorted and in some areas plain wrong. Especially your use of the word retrofit.

Posted January 29, 2013 link

I think retrofit is the right word - these look like HX machines that were home-upgraded to dual boiler PIDs by swapping and adding a few parts - but if you have a better one, I'm all ears.

Personally, I'm less interested in user repairability than I am in low price, ease of use, and basic reliability. By analogy, the first car I had was a 10 year old 1966 VW Bug. In many ways it was a great car: I did everything from tune-ups to engine overhauls with a basic set of tools from Sears. But I tired of the machine, and several upgrades later landed in a Beemer. I don't do much repair work on this car, but I have a great mechanic who has all the know-how and all the tools. I've lost user repairability and gained functionality and basic reliability. The price wasn't too bad too, since I bought it used.

But this is a matter of personal taste, not the laws of physics.

Did I mention that the BDB is half the price of these other jobs? It is, and at that rate you could buy two to ensure you always have a reserve supply of parts for adventures in appliance repair.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:43pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

I think retrofit is the right word - these look like HX machines that were home-upgraded to dual boiler PIDs by swapping and adding a few parts - but if you have a better one, I'm all ears.

Personally, I'm less interested in user repairability than I am in low price, ease of use, and basic reliability. By analogy, the first car I had was a 10 year old 1966 VW Bug. In many ways it was a great car: I did everything from tune-ups to engine overhauls with a basic set of tools from Sears. But I tired of the machine, and several upgrades later landed in a Beemer. I don't do much repair work on this car, but I have a great mechanic who has all the know-how and all the tools. I've lost user repairability and gained functionality and basic reliability. The price wasn't too bad too, since I bought it used.

But this is a matter of personal taste, not the laws of physics.

Did I mention that the BDB is half the price of these other jobs? It is, and at that rate you could buy two to ensure you always have a reserve supply of parts for adventures in appliance repair.

Posted January 29, 2013 link

I wouldnt say half.. The QM is 1899... BDB 1199
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 522
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:46pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

cuznvin Said:

I wouldnt say half.. The QM is 1899... BDB 1199

Posted January 29, 2013 link

I got my BDB for $900.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:47pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

I got my BDB for $900.

Posted January 29, 2013 link

Maybe you did. But that is a once a year sale. You couldnt go and buy one right now for 900
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 522
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:52pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

cuznvin Said:

Maybe you did. But that is a once a year sale. You couldnt go and buy one right now for 900

Posted January 29, 2013 link

Today's prices start at $926.45. I bought it used from a large on-line retailer.

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:54pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

BubbaDude Said:

Today's prices start at $926.45. I bought it used from a large on-line retailer.

Posted January 29, 2013 link

That isn't comparing apples to apples
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BubbaDude
Senior Member
BubbaDude
Joined: 8 Jan 2011
Posts: 522
Location: High in the Rockies
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Hottop 2KB
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 2:56pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

cuznvin Said:

That isn't comparing apples to apples

Posted January 29, 2013 link

OK, and what's the price of the R58?

 
"I've Scaced many HX/E61 machines, seeing shot variances of up to 8-10F or more. [The BDB] stays within 1F." - Mark Prince
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 3:00pm
Subject: Re: Trying to Decide R58, Quickmill Qm7,  Breville DB
 

Ive owned four high end espresso machines.  Two HXs and Two Dual Boilers.  Three of them were E61 machines, one was the La Spaziale Vivaldi II.

I do like the E61 design.  As Chris Coffee will tell you in all their videos, it looks good, it makes great coffee, and its easy and cheap to service.  It comes apart easy enough with a pair of wrenches and a screwdriver or hexhead, and you have access to each valve and the lever cam.  Even with a Rotary pump it provides a smooth pressure ramp and natural pre-infusion, and I will tell you it is quite forgiving.  Not that the Vivaldi II is tough to use, but when I switched to it from an E-61, and then back to E-61 when I sold it, I noticed how much more forgiving the E61 was of slight imperfections in your shot prep.  Diligence is rewarded, but faults are not harshly punished.

Current machine is the much loved, uber popular Alex Duetto 2.  The V3 brings some nice fit-finish aspects to the table that brings the Duetto up to Quickmill levels of refinement, but internally its been a beast since version 1.  My opinion on it is that its the number 1 E61 Dual boiler Chris Coffee sells, and out of all the E61 Dual Boilers, it shares the top of the podium with one other, the Vibiemme double domo.(The differences between the DDV3 and the DuettoV3 are almost nothing,that the decision between them is really just whether you want to buy from Jim or Chris.  Since Ive always bought from Chris, thats how my decision went.)  They are the E61 DBs that have Rotary Pumps, Tank/Plumb option, tiny brew boilers and huge steam boilers, fully PID controlled, heating elements large enough that you never outrun them, and the ability to run beautifully on 110v/15amp, and the Duetto can crank over to 20amp if you want to push it to catering level capacity.


As to whether or not the E61 is a solid choice for a dual boiler design, I direct you here, for an indepth study of the temperature profile of the Alex Duetto.  

And Im not knocking the Breville either.  Im really impressed by that little guy, Id LOVE to have one to play around with.  But there is something to be said about the build level and overall equipment quality of these bigger machines, and if I had to put my money on which machine will still be cranking out drinks ten years from now, they'd both probably be there, but my money would go on the E61 tank.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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