germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 7:12am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
I don't think we can talk GS with out talking about the bean/s. I hope we can all agree there is no GS with stale beans so if we consider a fresh bean/s are changing from the moment they come out of the roaster until the day they are flat and stale which IMO make the GS intrical with the bean/s as well as the Mano and the equipment and settings. I have had the pleasure of pulling many shots that some may consider GS but I am constantly working with my roasts and my shots on a daily aging as well as side by side with different profiles. I have pulled maybe a dozen that i consider GS over the last 4 years most of them in the last 1.5 years, you may be surprised some of them came from beans older then 12 days. Other then my roasting being very good I have nothing to do with GS except I am lucky enough to pull a shot in the right moment with the right settings and I did not screw anything up on my prep.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 7:17am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
OK, that took me a second to figure out . . . I thought you were referring to a La Marzocco GS/3, as opposed to "GS" being shorthand for "god-shot."
F*** god-shots, no great espresso comes from stale beans . . . though, I'll admit that -- with a great grinder -- you can coax a decent, perhaps even good, shot out of them most of the time.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 7:25am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
To expand, for a moment . . .
diggi Said:
"I define a Godshot as a better shot than I've ever made before. Each time I pull one, the bar goes up a little and it will be harder to pull the next one. The Godshots get less and less frequent." pulled from this
Russell (and others), perhaps it might help if you think of a "god-shot" as a "world's record." At one point, the records for getting hits in consecutive games of Major League Baseball was two games in a row, then three, then four . . . now it's 56 games, and Joe DiMaggio's record has stood since 1941. Eventually it will get broken, and the proverbial bar will be raised again. The same with Ted Williams' .406 batting average. We still celebrate the player with the highest batting average at the end of the season, even if it's only .312 -- but it's a far cry from .406!
F*** god-shots, no great espresso comes from stale beans . . . though, I'll admit that -- with a great grinder -- you can coax a decent, perhaps even good, shot out of them most of the time.
When one does F*** a god-shot I would hope they let it cool down a little. I have pushed the envelop on stale and I agree there are some decent results that can be had, I do have a lot of respect for roasters who can do a blending magic to coax a decent flavor profile, thankfully I have the choice.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 9:42am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
When a person uses the term god-shot we must first realize it is purely subjective. It has no way to be verified scientifically or objectively. Once that fact is accepted the whole argument becomes a lot easier to understand. If it could be identified then we would have the god-shot standard and we would know when a shot is a god-shot or not. There are so many variables and factors in making great espresso not the least of which is fresh beans and a clean machine. If there were a set of steps you could follow then a god-shot should always be able to be duplicated. If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2. That isnt ever going to change. You can say it is something else but it will always be 2. So then if this mystical god-shot does exist,it can be identified,and if it can, and the procedure can be duplicated exactly without one litle change, then all things being equal it follows that this mystical cosmic creation can be duplicated. Its kind of like WHY WE CANT FIND BIGFOOT WE CANT FIND BIGFOOT BECUASE HE LIKE THE INFAMOUS GOD-SHOT DOESNT EXIST Now if you want to name your best shot with a subjective personal identifier and call it a god-shot then who am I to rain on your parade. But when you stop the whole espresso journey to call one particular shot a god-shot and then go and search for this one euphoric mystical transcendental nondescript experience based on subjective feelings IN MY HUMBLE OPINION YOU ARE CHASING ESPRESSO BIGFOOT. Let me know how thats working for you as time goes by.We havent even mentioned the issue with us the espresso drinkers and how our response to this wonderful drink is not stagnant or fixed but also has levels of receptivity .What if for whatever reason on that day you have experienced a god-shot the revelation was on your end for a particular reason and not the spectacular mystical god-shot. This to me has its roots in some kind of hoodoo voodoo thing and its how god shot religious groups can get started. I like to let the experience exist within its own beauty as it has spoken to me. So matters like this and conversations along these lines to me are humorous so if I exaggerated some of my points to illustrate this whole god-shot phenomena please dont be offended. I can live with your ideas of god-shot..I just translate the religious language to " Yeah man wow....this is the best shot I've ever had". Which while we are at it...is a god-shot you experience now not a god-shot when ten years from now you experience a stronger more soul moving god-shot?????? Russel Im with you on this one bro!
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:09am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
I've had a few what I would consider g/s with my hx machines. none yet out of the duetto but hopeful it will happen.my fav was with some aged naturals I blended and was with 10 days rest.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:11am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Iluvdabean Said:
When a person uses the term god-shot we must first realize it is purely subjective. It has no way to be verified scientifically or objectively. Once that fact is accepted the whole argument becomes a lot easier to understand. If it could be identified then we would have the god-shot standard and we would know when a shot is a god-shot or not. There are so many variables and factors in making great espresso not the least of which is fresh beans and a clean machine. If there were a set of steps you could follow then a god-shot should always be able to be duplicated. If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2. That isnt ever going to change. You can say it is something else but it will always be 2. So then if this mystical god-shot does exist,it can be identified,and if it can, and the procedure can be duplicated exactly without one litle change, then all things being equal it follows that this mystical cosmic creation can be duplicated. Its kind of like WHY WE CANT FIND BIGFOOT WE CANT FIND BIGFOOT BECUASE HE LIKE THE INFAMOUS GOD-SHOT DOESNT EXIST Now if you want to name your best shot with a subjective personal identifier and call it a god-shot then who am I to rain on your parade. But when you stop the whole espresso journey to call one particular shot a god-shot and then go and search for this one euphoric mystical transcendental nondescript experience based on subjective feelings IN MY HUMBLE OPINION YOU ARE CHASING ESPRESSO BIGFOOT. Let me know how thats working for you as time goes by.We havent even mentioned the issue with us the espresso drinkers and how our response to this wonderful drink is not stagnant or fixed but also has levels of receptivity .What if for whatever reason on that day you have experienced a god-shot the revelation was on your end for a particular reason and not the spectacular mystical god-shot. This to me has its roots in some kind of hoodoo voodoo thing and its how god shot religious groups can get started. I like to let the experience exist within its own beauty as it has spoken to me. So matters like this and conversations along these lines to me are humorous so if I exaggerated some of my points to illustrate this whole god-shot phenomena please dont be offended. I can live with your ideas of god-shot..I just translate the religious language to " Yeah man wow....this is the best shot I've ever had". Which while we are at it...is a god-shot you experience now not a god-shot when ten years from now you experience a stronger more soul moving god-shot?????? Russel Im with you on this one bro!
EDIT: sorry can't get the quotes to work correct as this point. Mod Note (JonR) - I fixed the quote for you ;-)
Haven't had one have you? LOL. Would once in a Blue Moon shot change how you feel, no big foots or god to get in the way there. Once in a blue moon I get a shot that tastes like no other I have had before, it is a magnificent cup that makes the world stop turning for the few moments it lasts, flavor, texture, and aroma all come together to take me on a journey, it happens just like a blue moon happens.in my mind it is not allusive at all but it is also something I can not create or predict, like slowing down coming to a green light just as a car goes flying across in front of you, I don't question, I am just happy.
I have been told on many occasion that "this is the best (insert espresso drink) I have ever had"" I choose to believe them, just the kind of guy I am, does this mean they just had a BM ( blue moon shot to clarify)? Only once did the persons eyes roll back into their head and on that occasion I would say two shots in a row had this effect, but no for the rest.
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