Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:35am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
I have no problem with ERL ( espresso religious language ) and terms like god-shot dont offend me. Its o.k.......trust me on this. I have already translated it into processable data so we can relate in a meaningful way. If it helps someone to enjoy their journey who am I to say its wrong. My only objection is to it being pushed as a fact when its a subjective term that when extrapolated out requires faith to believe in. If someone choses not to believe in the existence of a god-shot based on lacking empirical data and observation they should be allowed this right also.Now if someone can produce a god-shot,a ufo or a bigfoot then I will be the first one there.:)
germantownrob Said:
Haven't had one have you? LOL. Would once in a Blue Moon shot change how you feel, no big foots or god to get in the way there. Once in a blue moon I get a shot that tastes like no other I have had before, it is a magnificent cup that makes the world stop turning for the few moments it lasts, flavor, texture, and aroma all come together to take me on a journey, it happens just like a blue moon happens.in my mind it is not allusive at all but it is also something I can not create or predict, like slowing down coming to a green light just as a car goes flying across in front of you, I don't question, I am just happy.
I have been told on many occasion that "this is the best (insert espresso drink) I have ever had"" I choose to believe them, just the kind of guy I am, does this mean they just had a BM ( blue moon shot to clarify)? Only once did the persons eyes roll back into their head and on that occasion I would say two shots in a row had this effect, but no for the rest.
Heh. I would love to see the look on my husband's face if I said "Honey, I want to go on vacation in Italy....for the coffee."
The irony here is that he is Italian, with family (second cousins, I think? but in Italian families the degree of separation seems somehow meaningless) over there who run some kind of small bed and breakfast, I believe. Someday, we plan to go absolutely. I just don't think my non-coffee drinking hubby will be into a tour of small cafes to taste their espresso. ;)
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,013 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:51am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Going to do my best to stay on subject.
I look at it as mathematics, the odds you will get a BM shot ( think I will stick with this name) are not good. Beans need to be great, roast needs to be great, beans are in a particular window of age for the particular bean/blend, the humidity is just right, the ambient temp is just right, the temp of the brew water temp is just right, the grinder is set perfect for all the other parameters and there you go, a big BM shot. Easy if you pull between 8-15 shots a day and know the roast master so adjustments to already great tasting roasts can be made the mathematical odds of it happening are like 1/2000 for me. Does it help that I have a decent hot water delivery system that can give fairly accurate brew temps, not IMO, but it does give me great tasting shots 90% of the time. See it is easy to stay on topic, lol.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:11pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
I use god-shot because its the term people are using. I say do all you can to make great espresso and if it helps you to call one a god-shot then its ok with me. Yet to prove its anything other than a subjective term to what you consider a great shot still is impossible. I can only refer you what Ive said before and wish you luck in dragging a subjective term and thought into the halls of empirical verifiable fact. You would be better off IMHO looking for big foot. I can only assume since you so ardently affirm the god-shot myth that you think it exists. Moreover Im inclined you reject the idea the term god-shot is a subjective term. Which then leads me to wonder are all god-shots the same? Can one god-shot be a greater god-shot than another? If they do exist then why isn't there a god-shot coffee shop?? See where this subjective thinking goes when we start feeding it. Its a subjective term and open to the many different opinions people have of an experience. To make it objective fact is fascinating to me, even if illogical and unprovable.
germantownrob Said:
Going to do my best to stay on subject.
I look at it as mathematics, the odds you will get a BM shot ( think I will stick with this name) are not good. Beans need to be great, roast needs to be great, beans are in a particular window of age for the particular bean/blend, the humidity is just right, the ambient temp is just right, the temp of the brew water temp is just right, the grinder is set perfect for all the other parameters and there you go, a big BM shot. Easy if you pull between 8-15 shots a day and know the roast master so adjustments to already great tasting roasts can be made the mathematical odds of it happening are like 1/2000 for me. Does it help that I have a decent hot water delivery system that can give fairly accurate brew temps, not IMO, but it does give me great tasting shots 90% of the time. See it is easy to stay on topic, lol.
If your hubby finds any joy in food and ambiance, I suspect you will not have to drag him into any small cafe. My most significant coffee and cafe experience was at Piazza Duomo in Milan: 16th century buildings under glass (since the 16th century), impeccably dressed Italians everywhere, stunning pastries and the best cappuccino I have ever had. I would submit that, under those circumstances, that cap would have tasted good even to a non coffee drinker. Go sooner so you can go again later. :-)
Can't really follow your thoughts here....I think you're making this a bit over-the-top philosophical. Are you really following what you are saying? Yes, everyone agrees that this is a subjective term. Nobody is fighting you here.
Iluvdabean Said:
If they do exist then why isn't there a god-shot coffee shop??
That is the point being made. They happen rarely and everything needs to be perfect (unpredictably so)....so no; there could never be a shop that could make consistent god shots. But they could make back-to-back BF (bigfoot) shots.
Iluvdabean Said:
If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2. That isnt ever going to change.
That's where I disagree. Once you've had a new best shot (godshot), then you need something different to have a new 'best shot'. So every new 'best shot' is better than the last, making these godshots less and less frequent.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 2:22pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Thank you my coffee brother its always good to get another view point. Im giving this a rest cause its been hammered beyond recognition.
diggi Said:
Just need to stir the pot a bit more. and without feeling bad for hijacking a 'dime-a-dozen' thread.
Can't really follow your thoughts here....I think you're making this a bit over-the-top philosophical. Are you really following what you are saying? Yes, everyone agrees that this is a subjective term. Nobody is fighting you here.
That is the point being made. They happen rarely and everything needs to be perfect (unpredictably so)....so no; there could never be a shop that could make consistent god shots. But they could make back-to-back BF (bigfoot) shots.
That's where I disagree. Once you've had a new best shot (godshot), then you need something different to have a new 'best shot'. So every new 'best shot' is better than the last, making these godshots less and less frequent.
If it could be identified then we would have the god-shot standard and we would know when a shot is a god-shot or not. There are so many variables and factors in making great espresso not the least of which is fresh beans and a clean machine. If there were a set of steps you could follow then a god-shot should always be able to be duplicated. If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2.
This is in direct contradiction to your opening sentence. You're saying that a "god-shot" is subjective (something which I agree with completely), and then you proceed to (attempt to) apply objective standards. Say what???
Iluvdabean Said:
That isnt ever going to change. You can say it is something else but it will always be 2.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 