JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 9:10pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Steve? When have I EVER said that a "god-shot" was anything BUT subjective???
Taste IS subjective. PERIOD. Who wrote the better music, Bach or Beethoven? the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? Who was the better painter, Rembrandt or El Greco? or van Gogh or Picasso? What wine is better, the 2009 Chateau Cache Phloe Chardonnay or the 2010 Domaine Jean Deaux Chardonnay? Which cola is better, Coke or Pepsi? Which is the better espresso blend, Vivace or Verve? Counter Culture or Klatch? Or none of the above?
And if you pick X, and I pick Y, and someone else picks Z -- who's wrong?
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:01pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
This through me, when you wrote.
"god-shot" to me, Russell, is just that: a serendipitous coming together of the Espresso Gods that result in a truly amazing shot, leaving you speechless. You cannot create a god-shot. You cannot "aim" for it, or attempt to reproduce it. It is something that -- when all is right in the heavens, and the stars perfectly align -- just happens. THAT (to me) is a "god-shot."
It sounded mystical and transcendental not based on what we do and our subjective feelings
I am glad you agree that a god-shot is subjective . If its subjective that means its based on individual subjective taste and a person in any part of their journey can have one, from someone using a Gaggia Coffee,a La Pavoni lever, or La Cimbali Junior.
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
Steve? When have I EVER said that a "god-shot" was anything BUT subjective???
Taste IS subjective. PERIOD. Who wrote the better music, Bach or Beethoven? the Beatles or the Rolling Stones? Who was the better painter, Rembrandt or El Greco? or van Gogh or Picasso? What wine is better, the 2009 Chateau Cache Phloe Chardonnay or the 2010 Domaine Jean Deaux Chardonnay? Which cola is better, Coke or Pepsi? Which is the better espresso blend, Vivace or Verve? Counter Culture or Klatch? Or none of the above?
And if you pick X, and I pick Y, and someone else picks Z -- who's wrong?
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:04pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
\What you CAN make is consistently GREAT espresso, and that requires skill, technique, fresh beans . . . we all know the mantra. But if all you're doing, Russell, is making good espresso, remind me never to go to your café -- I'd just be disappointed.
This is why I think contributing here is worth less and less of my time. Thank you Jason, for insulting me, my fellow baristas, and the cafe who's reputation for taking all aspects of coffee very seriously (and with a smile no less) we have worked hard to build. And all over the semantic issue of using "good" instead of "great". I bid you all a good night.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:34pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Russel I would say this place needs people who live coffee such as you do. I didnt give his comments a second thought in regards to you. Ive had great espresso from Klatch L.A. and Intelligentsia Chicago,plus many other smaller shops.
russel Said:
This is why I think contributing here is worth less and less of my time. Thank you Jason, for insulting me, my fellow baristas, and the cafe who's reputation for taking all aspects of coffee very seriously (and with a smile no less) we have worked hard to build. And all over the semantic issue of using "good" instead of "great". I bid you all a good night.
Me, too, which is why I go there . . . but why would I go to a place that only gives me "good"? I'm sorry if Russell doesn't appreciate the difference between "good" and "great" -- actually, I'm sure that, in real life, he does -- but I can only go by what he wrote.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,013 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 6:22am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
Me, too, which is why I go there . . . but why would I go to a place that only gives me "good"? I'm sorry if Russell doesn't appreciate the difference between "good" and "great" -- actually, I'm sure that, in real life, he does -- but I can only go by what he wrote.
I have good to very good to excellent equipment at home so I can repeat great espresso and coffee multiple times a day. I have upgraded through time all of this equipment to suit my needs to continue on the journey of great espresso/coffee, not some RoastMaster's interpretation of what they do to please their customers, not saying I don't sample what is out there just saying I am not limited to that profile or that roast level. I have beans that can be roasted many different ways to give a very different cup. I can play with dose, grind and temperature to also alter the taste, any cafe I walk into I get what I get and that is about it. What came first the home roaster/brewer or the cafe? Hint, this one is simpler then the chicken and the egg.
How is that for theory, upgrade to suit your needs.
Iluvdabean Senior Member Joined: 7 Mar 2005 Posts: 1,057 Location: California Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia... Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro... Drip: Capresso MT 500/Pour Over Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 7:59am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Rob there are only a handful of people here who know what they are talking about in my opinion and the one thing they all have in common is they dont argue about things. I like that because they are comfortable with themselves. I see people who brag about machines and things as insecure.Same as those who think god-shots (subjective metaphor) can only belong to a few with a certain machine. Seems to me those who have progressed any distance in this coffee journey have chucked pride out of the back pack to get further on. Frankly I dont know what keeps poor Mark Prince sane with all this childish fighting. Last night I thought to myself...How does he do it I always have to cleanse what some people say with EGO CLEANSER sold at the better shops. Then let it hang dry outside..it removes all the personal self gratifying B.S.leaving the real stuff.
germantownrob Said:
+1
I have good to very good to excellent equipment at home so I can repeat great espresso and coffee multiple times a day. I have upgraded through time all of this equipment to suit my needs to continue on the journey of great espresso/coffee, not some RoastMaster's interpretation of what they do to please their customers, not saying I don't sample what is out there just saying I am not limited to that profile or that roast level. I have beans that can be roasted many different ways to give a very different cup. I can play with dose, grind and temperature to also alter the taste, any cafe I walk into I get what I get and that is about it. What came first the home roaster/brewer or the cafe? Hint, this one is simpler then the chicken and the egg.
How is that for theory, upgrade to suit your needs.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,013 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 8:19am Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Iluvdabean Said:
Rob there are only a handful of people here who know what they are talking about in my opinion and the one thing they all have in common is they dont argue about things. I like that because they are comfortable with themselves. I see people who brag about machines and things as insecure.Same as those who think god-shots (subjective metaphor) can only belong to a few with a certain machine. Seems to me those who have progressed any distance in this coffee journey have chucked pride out of the back pack to get further on. Frankly I dont know what keeps poor Mark Prince sane with all this childish fighting. Last night I thought to myself...How does he do it I always have to cleanse what some people say with EGO CLEANSER sold at the better shops. Then let it hang dry outside..it removes all the personal self gratifying B.S.leaving the real stuff.
We call them Hacks in the construction world. Some of the most successful contractors I know are hack carpenters and they make a ton of money and hire very good tradesmen that are not hacks and can be trusted.Some of the most skilled craftsmen I know can't make a dime without someone to be their boss and get the jobs. If I want something done the best it can be done I will not go to a business that claims to do it best since really they are best at selling not at doing, I will go to those that do know best and learn how to do what they do or hire them personally do to it for me. I buy my espresso equipment from one place because they stand behind what they sell and don't waste time on selling me what I don't need.
diggi Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2011 Posts: 382 Location: Halifax, NS Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2 Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,... Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 4:16pm Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
I guess I didn't know the backstory here before walking into this mine field as I'm sure this scuffle didn't start on this thread. Sorry if my contributions were interpreted as against one 'side' or the other. Didn't realize the emotions were so heated or I would have refrained from posting.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 