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Extraction is too fast
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Extraction is...  
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Shawn12
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Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:20am
Subject: Extraction is too fast
 

Looking for a little advice.

My machine has started to extract too quickly.

I'm not doing anything differently. Same coffee. Same grind setting. Same tamp pressure. Same number of grams.

What used to produce a perfect 25 sec shot is now done in 18 .

I can slow it down by going finer etc but just wondering why this occurred at all.

Faulty part?

I'm using a Classic not PIDed yet but this now has me really considering ordering a kit again.

THANKS
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espressoplanet
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espressoplanet
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Location: Mississauga
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Espresso: QM, LaSpaz, Rancilio, Izzo,...
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Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:35am
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

Please excuse the nature of the questions I am about to ask as they may be really basic...

How are you storing your coffee? Many things will affect your extraction time... you need to tweek your grind settings day by day. If it is really humid out for example it may cause a change. If your coffee is left in your hopper it is exposed to air and going stale for example.

Thanks,

Josh.
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Shawn12
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Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:50am
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

Hi Josh.. so I'm not storing the beans any differently than I ever have but I see your point. I do leave some beans in one of my hoppers but I keep my second one empty and fill as needed. Have always stored my beans in mason jars.
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takeshi
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takeshi
Joined: 12 Oct 2002
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Location: Houston
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Espresso: Alex Duetto 3.0
Grinder: Super Jolly
Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:00pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

Shawn12 Said:

Same grind setting.

Posted February 21, 2013 link

Grind needs to be adjusted over time and as conditions change (humidity, age of beans, beans, etc).  It's not something you set-and-forget.

Shawn12 Said:

I'm using a Classic not PIDed yet but this now has me really considering ordering a kit again.

Posted February 21, 2013 link

IIRC temperature really doesn't impact extraction time.
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Shawn12
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Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:28pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

thank you takeshi

takeshi Said:

Grind needs to be adjusted over time and as conditions change (humidity, age of beans, beans, etc).  It's not something you set-and-forget.

Posted February 21, 2013 link

I understand that but the difference was just so substantial.Well beyond any minor modifications I have had to make before.

takeshi Said:

IIRC temperature really doesn't impact extraction time.

Posted February 21, 2013 link

Really? so the more temperature stability a PID provides won't do anything to make my extaction more consistent? I have been under a misimpression than.
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frcn
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frcn
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Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:35pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

It is not uncommon to have to change grind. Most common factor is the age of the coffee, particularly if it was fresh-roasted when you got it and you have been using the same batch for some time. Ambient humidity can also be a factor.

If you told us that you never have to change grind I would be more suspicious of either the coffee,the grinder, or your methods or standards.

 
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Buckley
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Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 12:51pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

Wait a minute!

If your extraction has suddenly jumped to too fast by several seconds, as you indicated, the most likely explanation is that you are getting channeling.  The most common cause of the sudden appearance of channeling (keeping all other things the same) is the gradual aging of the beans.  I suspect, but cannot prove, that frozen beans age faster after thawing than never-frozen beans.

As you know, channeling is the preferential movement of the infusion through paths of low resistance through, or around (edge channeling) the puck, therefore the infusion is completed in less time.

The cure is to user fresher beans, and to try the WDT (Google it).  The only way to detect and monitor channeling is to use a naked portafilter and to compare your infusion stream with the example videos that you can find all over the web.  Examining the puck for signs of channeling after the fact is beyond me and, except in gross cases, I suspect there is a significant learning curve involved.

Buckley
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
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Location: PNW
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Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 1:02pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

I agree it could be channeling or aging beans.

I use a naked all the time and when I started I would see channeling from watching the pour but mostly I could not see it on the puck after the fact.  Only rarely would I see holes on the edge of the puck.  I still get fine misty sprites I am trying to work out.

 
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Shawn12
Senior Member
Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 2:23pm
Subject: Re: Extraction is too fast
 

Ok so after reading all the responses I then looked at some videos and read a few articles I found on channeling.

A few things hit home and I think are contributing to my issues.

"extremely high temperatures will accelerate blonding, as will happen if the barista forgets to perform a cooling flush before the extraction."

Probably a little guilty here. Perhaps not flushing long enough.

and

"tapping to knock grinds off the side of the basket during tamping can cause channeling"

likely a little guilty here too.

Thanks everyone will use this to try and resolve.
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