john_ertw Senior Member Joined: 3 Nov 2012 Posts: 14 Location: Toronto, Ontario Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Quickmill Vetrano Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 9:18am Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
I have been wondering the same thing. I'm finding that I get better taste at 20-22 seconds from pump start than I do at 25-30 seconds. With the longer "ideal" time my shots are bitter.
I don't know why the "ideal" settings make worse coffee, but every time I try a finer grind I regret it.
agreed, but one still has to go with taste. I'd add to this, that if one does want to lengthen their shot time and still have what they consider a blanced extraction, they could updose at the same grind or grind finer and downdose slightly.
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:05am Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
rhetorically speaking, if you like espresso that takes 15 seconds from "pump on" then fine, BUT, how will you know if that is the best espresso you can make unless you experiment with other doses, grinds, and extraction times? If you are not always searching for "better" then why take on the task of espresso at home when you can just open a jar of "freeze-dried crystals" or a big can of "mountain grown, it's the richest kind"?
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 509 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 10:49am Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
john_ertw Said:
I have been wondering the same thing. I'm finding that I get better taste at 20-22 seconds from pump start than I do at 25-30 seconds. With the longer "ideal" time my shots are bitter.
I don't know why the "ideal" settings make worse coffee, but every time I try a finer grind I regret it.
That would taste really under-extracted to me, been there done that lol...but if it's what you like then go for it. With pre-infusion set on my machine for 2 seconds and another 2 for wait, I aim for about 25-30 seconds extraction from first drip.
Then again look at SCG videos, so many where their shots from first drip are like 15 seconds and they like them, look like gushers to me though lol
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:10pm Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
The 30 second rule really seems to be a home barista number by what I've seen. In almost every (admittedly mediocre) cafe I've been to, the shot times are about 20-23 seconds from when they hit the button for the pump. And I'll also admit that SCG in their demos seem like they couldn't care less about shot time, but they use expensive beans, which probably make up for the shorter extraction times. On mine, I generally am at about 24-25 seconds from pump start to 45-50ml before it begins to blond and I cut it off. Does that sound about right?
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 3:01pm Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
The "rule" has been around a lot longer than HB. But for many years now it has often been said that it is not a "rule" but merely a guideline for beginners. "About 25 seconds and about 2 ounces" is often stated, and the "about" stressed. And as far as SCG goes, we have all seen and heard enough from them to know that while they may be good marketing folks and have a good selection, their prowess as gourmet baristas is highly questionable. A relatively-recently mentioned comparison between some machines was so laxckign in control and scientific approach that it was laughable.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 3:30pm Subject: Re: Looks Great, Tastes Great, Runs too Fast?
frcn Said:
And as far as SCG goes, we have all seen and heard enough from them to know that while they may be good marketing folks and have a good selection, their prowess as gourmet baristas is highly questionable. A relatively-recently mentioned comparison between some machines was so laxckign in control and scientific approach that it was laughable.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
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