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What's going on with my Giotto?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > What's going on...  
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SAMHFOLEY
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Japan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Bodum French Press
Roaster: stove top popper
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 3:35pm
Subject: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

I have had a Rocket Giotto for the past 6 years.  I have had no problems with it.  I use it at home, and only pull 2-3 shots a day.  I back-flush with purocaf once a week and descale the machine 2-3 times a year.  This morning I turned it on and brought it up to pressure only to find that there was no response from the steam wand.  I was able to turn the knob all the way until it unscrewed from the machine.  I had never tried before, so I checked to see if I could do the same with the hot water knob, and I cannot.  This leads me to believe that I have to have the machine serviced.  Am I correct in my deductions, or is there more that I can do on my end.  Thanks in advance for any insights you might have.

Sam
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 511
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 3:53pm
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

The knob has either broken the circlip that holds it to the valve stem, or has pulled the end off of the valve stem.  With the knob unscrewed, look at the end of the stem in there.  Is it still intact and okay to just have a new circlip stuck on, or is the brass actually deformed to the point where it no longer has a groove but just a complete skinny end?
Either way, it will be better off with a whole new valve stem (Complete piece with the valve-tip that makes the seal and all) but if a new circlip will buy you another couple of years, that's an option.
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SAMHFOLEY
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Japan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Bodum French Press
Roaster: stove top popper
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 5:30pm
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

Looks pretty straight, but not sure what it should look like. Do you have an image, and a place to buy a circlip?

SAMHFOLEY: IMG_2874.JPG
(Click for larger image)
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SAMHFOLEY
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Japan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Bodum French Press
Roaster: stove top popper
Posted Sat Feb 23, 2013, 8:07pm
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

I took the cap off of the knob and found these inside....

The tip looks pretty flat and I found an end piece that appears to have been severed, ground down.  Tried to reassemble it as per the other side, but to no avail.  So what do I need to buy to fix it?  Is it difficult to do? I am over here in Japan, so I'll need to order the part first and foremost.  Thanks again in advance...

SAMHFOLEY: IMG_0975.JPG
(Click for larger image)
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,112
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 10:10am
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

Your Giotto has the compression style valves, I THINK.

The fullest featured Giottos have the non-compression valves, which can be rebuilt should this happen.  Unfortunately, the compression style cannot be rebuilt(save for the quick fix described above), a whole new valve needs to be purchased.

Thats all I know.  Someone more in tune with what Giotto you have will be able to provide better information.  But if it IS the compression style valve you've got, a new valve is probably going to be needed.  IDK where in Japan you could go specifically, but its not a wierd or un-common part.  Any espresso repair tech or parts house would have what you need.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 511
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 7:14pm
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

In your second picture I see that your circlip is fine.  But you do need a new valve-stem.
The long central brass part that you see there shouldn't be narrow at the end like it is, it should just have a groove cut into it so that the circlip in the groove pulls that valve stem off of the seat when you unscrew the knob.
You should remove the valve and take it with you to wherever you go for Rocket parts in your area.  Show them that broken valvestem and see if you can buy just that rather than the complete  valve.
You could alternatively try cutting a new groove a millimeter down the shaft with an extremely thin cutting disk on a dremel rototool or something and see if it lasts.  If your only option is replacing the complete valve, you might as well try repairing the old one, ie. threading it and using a nut instead of the circlip.
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SAMHFOLEY
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Japan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Bodum French Press
Roaster: stove top popper
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 9:46pm
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

So if I remove the valve stem, can I still operate my machine to pull shots, just not using the steam ?  It is a little tricky sounding to be cutting grooves into the stem, and I do not have the tools you described.  I put a call into the shop where I bought it in Vancouver and I'll see what they say about parts.  Living in the countryside of Japan doesn't lend itself to being able to quickly find a parts supplier unfortunately.

Another option might be to just switch over the hot water side to the steam side since I never even use that knob....  Doable??  What steps do I need to follow?  Thanks in advance
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,112
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 1:25am
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

Yes, the machine should still work fine, ASSUMING you can fully close the valve still.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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SAMHFOLEY
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 78
Location: Japan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Rocket Espresso Giotto...
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Drip: Bodum French Press
Roaster: stove top popper
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 4:32am
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

I was able to get a very quick and detailed response form the folks at Rocket-Espresso in Milan.  A part is on the way and hopefully everything will be back to normal in short order.  Thanks to everyone who contributed.  If I need any help putting it in, Ill check back in.  Thanks again.
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SStones
Senior Member
SStones
Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 511
Location: Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Giga 5, ECM Giotto, Rocket...
Grinder: Anfim Milano-Best
Vac Pot: No  :(
Drip: Some $30 thing from Walmart
Roaster: I buy pre-roasted.
Posted Mon Feb 25, 2013, 5:10am
Subject: Re: What's going on with my Giotto?
 

In the short term, yes, your springs will be holding the valves closed so you can still use it as is,
OR:
You could swap your valve stems from water to steam valves to make the water side the n-openable one and have steam working again.
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