Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Upgrade theory -...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 7 of 9 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,277
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:35am
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

I have no problem with ERL ( espresso religious language ) and terms like god-shot dont offend me. Its o.k.......trust me on this. I have already translated it
into processable data so we can relate in a meaningful way. If it helps someone to enjoy their journey who am I to say its wrong. My only objection is
to it being pushed as a fact when its a subjective term that when extrapolated out requires faith to believe in. If someone choses not to believe in the
existence of a god-shot based on lacking empirical data and observation they should be allowed this right also.Now if someone can produce a god-shot,a ufo or a bigfoot
then I will be the first one there.:)

germantownrob Said:

Haven't had one have you? LOL. Would once in a Blue Moon shot change how you feel, no big foots or god to get in the way there. Once in a blue moon I get a shot that tastes like no other I have had before, it is a magnificent cup that makes the world stop turning for the few moments it lasts, flavor, texture, and aroma all come together to take me on a journey, it happens just like a blue moon happens.in my mind it is not allusive at all but it is also something I can not create or predict, like slowing down coming to a green light just as a car goes flying across in front of you, I don't question, I am just happy.

I have been told on many occasion that "this is the best (insert espresso drink) I have ever had"" I choose to believe them, just the kind of guy I am, does this mean they just had a BM ( blue moon shot to clarify)? Only once did the persons eyes roll back into their head and on that occasion I would say two shots in a row had this effect, but no for the rest.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Link to this post
CharityV
Senior Member
CharityV
Joined: 8 Jul 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Oregon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Le'lit PL041
Grinder: Rocky DL
Roaster: SC/TO
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:48am
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Iluvdabean Said:

I would love to get a rental car and tour those small towns in northern italy to see and taste how they do it.

Posted February 22, 2013 link

Heh. I would love to see the look on my husband's face if I said "Honey, I want to go on vacation in Italy....for the coffee."

The irony here is that he is Italian, with family (second cousins, I think? but in Italian families the degree of separation seems somehow meaningless) over there who run some kind of small bed and breakfast, I believe. Someday, we plan to go absolutely. I just don't think my non-coffee drinking hubby will be into a tour of small cafes to taste their espresso. ;)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,153
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 11:51am
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Going to do my best to stay on subject.

I look at it as mathematics, the odds you will get a BM shot ( think I will stick with this name) are not good. Beans need to be great, roast needs to be great, beans are in a particular window of age for the particular bean/blend, the humidity is just right, the ambient temp is just right, the temp of the brew water temp is just right, the grinder is set perfect for all the other parameters and there you go, a big BM shot. Easy if you pull between 8-15 shots a day and know the roast master so adjustments to already great tasting roasts can be made the mathematical odds of it happening are like 1/2000 for me. Does it help that I have a decent hot water delivery system that can give fairly accurate brew temps, not IMO, but it does give me great tasting shots 90% of the time. See it is easy to stay on topic, lol.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,277
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 12:11pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

I use god-shot because its the term people are using. I say do all you can to make great espresso and if it helps you to call one a god-shot then
its ok with me. Yet to prove its anything other than a subjective term to what you consider a great shot still is impossible. I can only refer you what Ive said before
and wish you luck in dragging a subjective term and thought into the halls of empirical verifiable fact. You would be better off IMHO looking for big foot. I can only assume since you so ardently affirm the god-shot myth
that you think it exists. Moreover Im inclined you reject the idea the term god-shot is a subjective term. Which then leads me to wonder are all god-shots the same?
Can one god-shot be a greater god-shot than another? If they do exist then why isn't there a god-shot coffee shop?? See where this subjective thinking goes when
we start feeding it. Its a subjective term and open to the many different opinions people have of an experience. To make it objective fact is fascinating to me, even if
illogical and unprovable.

germantownrob Said:

Going to do my best to stay on subject.

I look at it as mathematics, the odds you will get a BM shot ( think I will stick with this name) are not good. Beans need to be great, roast needs to be great, beans are in a particular window of age for the particular bean/blend, the humidity is just right, the ambient temp is just right, the temp of the brew water temp is just right, the grinder is set perfect for all the other parameters and there you go, a big BM shot. Easy if you pull between 8-15 shots a day and know the roast master so adjustments to already great tasting roasts can be made the mathematical odds of it happening are like 1/2000 for me. Does it help that I have a decent hot water delivery system that can give fairly accurate brew temps, not IMO, but it does give me great tasting shots 90% of the time. See it is easy to stay on topic, lol.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Link to this post
fredk01
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 136
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 1:20pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Since this thread is completely off the rails, I'll take it a littler further...

CharityV Said:

...Someday, we plan to go absolutely. I just don't think my non-coffee drinking hubby will be into a tour of small cafes to taste their espresso. ;)

Posted February 24, 2013 link

If your hubby finds any joy in food and ambiance, I suspect you will not have to drag him into any small cafe.  My most significant coffee and cafe experience was at Piazza Duomo in Milan:  16th century buildings under glass (since the 16th century), impeccably dressed Italians everywhere, stunning pastries and the best cappuccino I have ever had.  I would submit that, under those circumstances, that cap would have tasted good even to a non coffee drinker.  Go sooner so you can go again later. :-)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
diggi
Senior Member
diggi
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Halifax, NS
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Spaz vivaldi S1 V2
Grinder: B Vario, OE LIDO
Drip: Chemex, Espro Press,...
Roaster: Poppery I
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 1:59pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Just need to stir the pot a bit more. and without feeling bad for hijacking a 'dime-a-dozen' thread.

Iluvdabean Said:

Yet to prove its anything other than a subjective term to what you consider a great shot still is impossible.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

Can't really follow your thoughts here....I think you're making this a bit over-the-top philosophical. Are you really following what you are saying? Yes, everyone agrees that this is a subjective term. Nobody is fighting you here.

Iluvdabean Said:

If they do exist then why isn't there a god-shot coffee shop??

Posted February 24, 2013 link

That is the point being made. They happen rarely and everything needs to be perfect (unpredictably so)....so no; there could never be a shop that could make consistent god shots. But they could make back-to-back BF (bigfoot) shots.

Iluvdabean Said:

If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2. That isnt ever going to change.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

That's where I disagree. Once you've had a new best shot (godshot), then you need something different to have a new 'best shot'. So every new 'best shot' is better than the last, making these godshots less and less frequent.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Iluvdabean
Senior Member
Iluvdabean
Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,277
Location: Kentucky
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Nuova Era Cuadra/Gaggia...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso/K-A Pro...
Drip: Bonavita BV 1800 TH
Roaster: Nesco 1010/Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 2:22pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Thank you my coffee brother its always good to get another view point. Im giving this a rest cause its been hammered beyond recognition.
 

diggi Said:

Just need to stir the pot a bit more. and without feeling bad for hijacking a 'dime-a-dozen' thread.


Can't really follow your thoughts here....I think you're making this a bit over-the-top philosophical. Are you really following what you are saying? Yes, everyone agrees that this is a subjective term. Nobody is fighting you here.


That is the point being made. They happen rarely and everything needs to be perfect (unpredictably so)....so no; there could never be a shop that could make consistent god shots. But they could make back-to-back BF (bigfoot) shots.



That's where I disagree. Once you've had a new best shot (godshot), then you need something different to have a new 'best shot'. So every new 'best shot' is better than the last, making these godshots less and less frequent.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

back to top
 View Profile Contact via ICQ Link to this post
JimOD
Senior Member
JimOD
Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 31
Location: Orange, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Saeco Aroma Non Pressurized
Grinder: Baratza Preciso with Esatto
Drip: Bunn NHBX-B
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

...now it's 56 games, and Joe DiMaggio's record has stood since 1941.  Eventually it will get broken

Posted February 24, 2013 link

Talk about your blasphamy!

 
My tongue is burned
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,405
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 6:19pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

Iluvdabean Said:

When a person uses the term god-shot we must first realize it is purely subjective. It has no way to be verified scientifically or objectively.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

Well, duh . . .

Iluvdabean Said:

Once that fact is accepted the whole argument becomes a lot easier to understand.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

Hmmm . . . didn't know there was an argument.

Iluvdabean Said:

If it could be identified then we would have the god-shot standard and we would know when a shot is a god-shot or not. There are so many variables and factors in making great espresso not the least of which is fresh beans and a clean machine.  If there were a set of steps you could follow then a god-shot should always be able to be duplicated. If for example you make a god-shot once then it follows if you repeat the exact same procedure with the exact same beans / grind and EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME that a god-shot is created. Its a fact that 1 + 1 = 2.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

This is in direct contradiction to your opening sentence.  You're saying that a "god-shot" is subjective  (something which I agree with completely), and then you proceed to (attempt to) apply objective standards.  Say what???

Iluvdabean Said:

That isnt ever going to change. You can say it is something else but it will always be 2.

Posted February 24, 2013 link

No.  It won't.

The whole point of a "god-shot" is that 1 + 1 ≠ 2

"1 + 1 = 2" is my daily espresso shot.  It's Tony the Tiger worthy:  it's g-g-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-e-a-t!

But a "god-shot" is that magical moment when 1 + 1 = 3 -- it's indefinable, unquantifiable, and completely and totally unexpected!

Thus, the rest of your post makes no sense to me . . . YMMV

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,405
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 24, 2013, 6:22pm
Subject: Re: Upgrade theory - Which machine next? And which one after that?
 

JimOD Said:

Talk about your blasphamy!

Posted February 24, 2013 link

Not to worry -- won't happen until Star Date 59162.3

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 7 of 9 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Upgrade theory -...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Great Espresso at Home
Curated selection of the best machines from La Spaziale, Izzo, Quick Mill, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.593194007874)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+