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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Considerations...  
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 6:30pm
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

As I've long said, the most significant improvement I ever made in terms of equipment was switching from a Mazzer Mini to the Cimbali MaxHybrid.  I certainly saw no decline in performance when I opted for the Baratza Vario . . .

Posted February 27, 2013 link

Honestly, the only reason I like the Vario, especially the W, is because it is easy to change and recall settings, plus grind an exact weight. It isnt as easy with all these "professional" grinders. So, Jason, just to clarify.. DO you think the Vario would give the same end result as the Cimbali MaxHybrid?
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,461
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

To be completely fair, I've never done a completely blind tasting to evaluate the two grinders side-by-side.  That aside, I was serious when I said there was a tremendous improvement when I replaced the Mazzer Mini with the Cimbali MaxHybrid, and noticed no decline at all when I switched to the Baratza Vario.

If that seems to you like I'm dodging question, I'm really not.  But you asked if one "would give the same end result" as the other -- no two grinders are identical.  In this case, the specific burr sets will mean there is a difference in taste.

But there is a reason why the Baratza Vario is compared most frequently to the Mazzer Super Jolly, rather than the Mazzer Mini . . . it's better than the Mini.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Wed Feb 27, 2013, 7:44pm
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

To be completely fair, I've never done a completely blind tasting to evaluate the two grinders side-by-side.  That aside, I was serious when I said there was a tremendous improvement when I replaced the Mazzer Mini with the Cimbali MaxHybrid, and noticed no decline at all when I switched to the Baratza Vario.

If that seems to you like I'm dodging question, I'm really not.  But you asked if one "would give the same end result" as the other -- no two grinders are identical.  In this case, the specific burr sets will mean there is a difference in taste.

But there is a reason why the Baratza Vario is compared most frequently to the Mazzer Super Jolly, rather than the Mazzer Mini . . . it's better than the Mini.

Posted February 27, 2013 link

Thanks....
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:37am
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

germantownrob Said:

In the world or on this forum? HB or CG? I believe the point is the Vario at half the price edges out in taste the mini by people who can tell the difference and that for around the $1k range a lot of grinders are available that easily outperform the mini but have a size to match a vw beetle on the counter.

Posted February 27, 2013 link

I wager than almost anyone who is familair with how espresso tastes would be able to discern a difference between the two grinders.  Being able to say what that difference is, is something else entirely, but there is many cases of people ugrading from the Mini, and then saying, "WOW!  What a difference!  I cant believe it, I was skeptical at first, but there is no doubt, what a huge upgrade!"


There's no doubt they're big grinders.  They do fit under cabinets without a hopper, and if you have a seperate espresso area, size shouldn't matter.

BUT, there is no denying that some people just have a problem with the size.  And theres' nothing wrong with that either

I agree that the PRo-M would be the next step up from the Vario in term of performance.  Its bigger than it looks in pictures though.. I thought it was like a Vario.. its not, its bigger than that.  But its definitely smaller than the other Titan level grinders.




I just want to say, before I got into espresso, before I signed up on Coffeegeek and was just lurking, reading the articles Mark Prince wrote about buying gear, the grinder, the fresh coffee etc etc....  I remember thinking to myself that the Mazzer Mini was the dream.  That if I ever got so serious as to buy such a grinder for my HOME, that my coffee must have reached a level that currently I can't phathom.

Couple years later Ive got a Mazzer Major, and looking to add another Titan grinder next to it.  Oh, and though I sold it to buy a Roaster, I used to have a Bunn G2 for brewing.  I miss that grinder every day.

Thats how it is for lots of people.. true, I got on board with huge mondo equipment for home use quicker then some people do, but almost everyone starts out thinking that there is NO WAY they'd put a grinder of that size in their house.

And then they do, and they taste what everyone was raving about, and understand why people buy such huge grinders.  In the case of the married man, it doesn't always recieve universal praise..

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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coffeestig
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 67
Location: Charlotte
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill QM67
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic...
Drip: French Press
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 5:07am
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

Just to be clear... http://www.chriscoffee.com/mobile/default.aspx is the grinder... does the doserless make a difference?  I'm getting anxious wondering if I made a bad decision...
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,461
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 7:34am
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

"Always look before you leap" . . . didn't your mother ever teach you that?

Fortunately for you, the difference between a grinder that uses a doser and one that is doserless is solely dependent upon how YOU use a grinder, how you prefer to grind . . .

My grinders at home (Mahlkönig K30 Vario; Baratza Vario) are both doserless.  The grinder in my office (Nuova Simonelli MCF -- scroll down) is a dosered grinder.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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coffeestig
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 67
Location: Charlotte
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill QM67
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Electronic...
Drip: French Press
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 11:06am
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

As I've long said, the most significant improvement I ever made in terms of equipment was switching from a Mazzer Mini to the Cimbali MaxHybrid.  I certainly saw no decline in performance when I opted for the Baratza Vario . . .

Posted February 27, 2013 link

Was it the mini or the mini e with the larger grinding burrs?
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 12:43pm
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

As I've long said, the most significant improvement I ever made in terms of equipment was switching from a Mazzer Mini to the Cimbali MaxHybrid.  I certainly saw no decline in performance when I opted for the Baratza Vario . . .

Posted February 27, 2013 link


What do you think of the Casadio Enea?
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 10:35pm
Subject: Re: Considerations for a machine. (specific to 15A users especially)
 

coffeestig Said:

Was it the mini or the mini e with the larger grinding burrs?

Posted February 28, 2013 link


The Mini-E with larger burrs is one case where the bigger burrs aren't exactly better.  There isn't much improvement from the regular mini, and even though they're the same diameter as a super jolly, the super jolly stills wins in the taste test.

Why?

I have absolutely no clue.  I speculate it has to do with the way the burrs are cut, but really, IDK.  Burr size GENERALLY means bigger is better, but not always.  Baratza Vario has small little flat burrs, yet grinds almost exactly like a super jolly.  Why?  Idk.  Maybe the Ceramic, and the way they're cut make them act like bigger burrs.. I really dont know.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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