Tellis Junior Member Joined: 3 Mar 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Honolulu Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 6:49pm Subject: Newbie seeking advice
Just signed up and will take a lengthy look through prior forum discussions and site reviews. Still, I'll be buying my first machine in the next couple of days. Have tried to educate myself but its almost a case of too much information. I have zero experience, but love espresso and am generally a quick learner. I was hoping to be in the $400-$500 range, but can easily elevate that if needed. Was thinking of the Lelit 041 or perhaps a Gaggia or Saeco; with a Breville from Amazon being a last option (Amazon ships free to Hawaii; always a concern when buying online). I'll pay what's needed for a quality machine. I'd like something that I won't outgrow anytime soon. Thank you in advance for any help directed my way. Again, I'll pour through the site later this evening.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 7:08pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
Tellis Said:
Just signed up and will take a lengthy look through prior forum discussions and site reviews. Still, I'll be buying my first machine in the next couple of days. Have tried to educate myself but its almost a case of too much information. I have zero experience, but love espresso and am generally a quick learner. I was hoping to be in the $400-$500 range, but can easily elevate that if needed. Was thinking of the Lelit 041 or perhaps a Gaggia or Saeco; with a Breville from Amazon being a last option (Amazon ships free to Hawaii; always a concern when buying online). I'll pay what's needed for a quality machine. I'd like something that I won't outgrow anytime soon. Thank you in advance for any help directed my way. Again, I'll pour through the site later this evening.
Welcome to CG! If you read for a while, you will soon see that the FIRSTn purchase should be a proper GRINDER. A $2000 machine will produce swill with a $100crappy grinder, whiule a $500 machine paired with a grinder liuke a baratza Preciso or Vario, Lelit, used Mazzer Suoer Jolly will produce wonderful coffee, with practice. Please read the grinder reviews, and click here
MerleApAmber Senior Member Joined: 13 Nov 2012 Posts: 162 Location: Atlanta Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville BES900 Grinder: Baratza Preciso + Esatto Vac Pot: Yuma Drip: bah-humbug Roaster: Hot Top 2K P
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 8:14pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
Tony, don't let IMA's thumb typing throw you, as the Boss he's spot on regards priorities. However, that said you'll find it doesn't then make your machine choice any easier. Welcome to the party.
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:38pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
Dear Tony,
I took the infuser/grinder advice to extremes, 10:1 to be exact. I am using a $1400 coffee grinder with a $140 espresso machine. This is really just a slight mismatch. Overall, the quality is very good. The variability in performance inherent in a low-end machine paired with the variability in performance of a low-end home barista (me) would be unacceptable to a seasoned coffee professional but it keeps me engaged in the process in order to keep the results laudable. This combo produces mostly very good cups, a few fair cups, very few 'sink shots' and an occasional excellent cup. When the same machine was paired with a $200 grinder the result was equally divided between fair, good and very good with the same occurrence of bad and excellent outliers. I would rather outgrow my espresso machine than outgrow my grinder.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:53pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
MerleApAmber Said:
Tony, don't let IMA's thumb typing throw you, as the Boss he's spot on regards priorities. However, that said you'll find it doesn't then make your machine choice any easier. Welcome to the party.
ahahaha. All thumbbbbbbbbbs for sure. Doesn't help that the $8 Costco 1.5 power computer glasses are great at 3 feet, but the keyboard type pad is a blur. (Double cataract surgery)
I'd also tell our OP to peruse our BST forum for a possible deal on some gear. MOST of these posters are solid people, with only a few screw-ups, usually those with 10 previous posting that say nothing. You can get some excellent deals on well cared for gear.
Tellis Junior Member Joined: 3 Mar 2013 Posts: 10 Location: Honolulu Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 10:55pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
Ok. Just now home from yoga, sipping a highly hopped beer. preparing to peruse the forum and reviews. I'm old enough to know that it's wasteful to not spend enough initially, realize the error in a short time, then have to dump the unsatisfactory equipment and buy what you really needed (wanted?) down the road. I'll try to make an independent decision after researching further but would welcome the opinionated advice of any of you veteran caffeine junkies (meant as a compliment). Go ahead; name names...ideally a suited grinder/machine pair that does not require a second mortgage on my home. I'll be here...
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,099 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Mar 3, 2013, 11:07pm Subject: Re: Newbie seeking advice
It's not a question of "naming names" . . . no one size fits all. Let's start with the standard questions, and a couple of reminders . . .
Standard Questions: 1) What kind of drinks do you like/want to make? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's capabilities.) 2) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at ay one time? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's ability to work continuously.) 3) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's durability.) 4) Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pourover machine with its own reservoir? 5) Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit? 6) What is your budget for a new machine? Does that also include a grinder? If not, what is your budget for a grinder?
And the Reminders . . .
The Four M's of Espresso: 1) the Macinazione is the grinder, and with it, the correct grinding of the coffee beans; 2) the Miscela is the coffee beans/blend itself; 3) the Macchina is the espresso machine; and 4) the Mano is the skilled hand of the barista.
All four are important. Nothing is more important than the grinder.
/ / / / /
Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens: -- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale. -- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale. -- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.
Your choice.
Cheers, Jason
* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."
It's not a question of "naming names" . . . no one size fits all. Let's start with the standard questions, and a couple of reminders . . .
Standard Questions: 1) What kind of drinks do you like/want to make? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's capabilities.)
Double/Triple espressos or Cappucinos
2) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself needing to make at ay one time? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's ability to work continuously.)
One in the morning; one in the afternoon. (Re: the morning cup, time is of the essence. A quick start/finish time would be invaluable) It'll be only myself consuming, as I live alone and do not think it a good idea to get my young Rottweiler hooked on caffeine. Her marrow bone addiction is bad enough...
3) How many drinks, on average, do you see yourself making in any given week? (This will tell us what you need in terms of a machine's durability.)
Per the above, 15-20 (occasional guests)
4) Can you plumb a machine directly into the water supply, or do you want/need a pourover machine with its own reservoir?
I don't think I'll be plumbing it directly. Yes to the reservoir.
5) Do you have a 20-amp circuit available, or only a (standard) 15-amp circuit?
20 amp!
6) What is your budget for a new machine? Does that also include a grinder? If not, what is your budget for a grinder?
So I guess my original $400-500 is out the window? I'll spend what's needed. but don't want to get too crazy with it.
And the Reminders . . .
The Four M's of Espresso: 1) the Macinazione is the grinder, and with it, the correct grinding of the coffee beans; 2) the Miscela is the coffee beans/blend itself; 3) the Macchina is the espresso machine; and 4) the Mano is the skilled hand of the barista.
All four are important. Nothing is more important than the grinder.
I did not know the grinder was so critical...
/ / / / /
Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens: -- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale. -- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale. -- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.
Your choice.
Cheers, Jason
Thank you for your assistance.
Tellis
* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."
My guess is that I'll get hammered on shipping by anyone other than Amazon. They have the Gaggia Classic at < $400 (also the Silvia @ $629). Which leaves me with $$$ to spend on a quality grinder. I'll sleep on it...
Gaggia is a way better deal than the Silvia, both are sbdu machines and perform basically the same but the Silvia is overpriced for a dated machine (you can mod the Gaggia steam wand to the Silvias too). Without a PID read up on temp surfing for either machine. Don't know what you want to spend in addition to the machine but the Baratza Vario is a killer grinder for the $. Preciso is cheaper but I wish I went for the Vario and its larger flat burrs.
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