germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 5:59am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
I have some time and plenty of beans today, I will pull some hot PF shots and some cold ones. I will be surprised if it has any change on extraction time, I don't disagree that the grinds could be expanding in a hot PF but it can't compare to the expansion when hot water hits the puck.
I think a question that keeps running around my head is, how much does a cold PF lower the group temp? I do not think it is going to large but if it translates into 1-5f change that will change the bitter/sour flavors.
The things I can say with certainty that effect shot flow are bean age of fresh beans, grind, dose, and shot prep consistency. While environment changes may have an effect they have never been enough in my climate controlled home to play much havec. I do not sweat a few second differences unless it happens on multiple shots to rule out shot prep otherwise the grind adjustment chase is on if the problem was prep. Been doing this for many years of 4-20 shots a day, I still have about every 5th shot effected by prep minorlly.
Edit. I make grinder adjustments for same bean on a daily routine as the bean ages, I also may be making dose and grind adjustments to acomodate a bean as it ages and changes flavor. I do not have a setting for a particular bean rather a range of 4-6 clicks unless I make a drastic change which can be even more micro clicks.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 7:59am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
Had a chance to pull a couple of shots. I have a DB and I am confident it is stable in temp from shot to shot. I have brew boiler set at 200f. Same beans being used on a full hopper of a Vario-W, hopper topped off from 1st shot to second shot. Machine has been on for 4:45 hours.
1st shot PF in for 1 hr idle, 23.5 g of beans double checked with a 100th of a gram scale ( .03g is a very small amount of grind but was removed so both shots weighted 23.5g exactly), pull was 36sec for 3oz of extraction.
2nd shot room temp PF (keep my house at 72f), 23.5g of beans, pull was 34.5 sec for 3oz of extraction.
2 HQ triple rlidgless baskets where used, a more exact test could be done using the same basket. I tasted the 1st shot from the warm PF but forgot to taste the cold PF shot before dumping it in my 6oz cappuccino which taste fantastic. While one test may not prove much it I am no longer going to test for extraction times being different ( I never thought they would be) but want to check for bitter/sour from a cold vs hot PF. A 1-2 sec diff from consecutive shot pulls I chalk up to basket prep and don't think it is out of the ordinary unless AndyS was having a shot at my house, lol, then I would do everything in my power to prep the baskets with the most anal detail.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,317 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Mar 5, 2013, 11:11am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
Yesterday I did naked with and without being in the group to preheat. They did not flow differently there are some slight taste differences but not out of the norm of my 2 morning shots. Since I am not perfect I can't ever get perfect shots and I have variations from shot to shot.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,611 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 4:58am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
Provided that there is a difference in flow at all between pre-heated and cold, I'd expect it to be even less with a bottomless PF, because the espresso doesn't even come into contact with its metal.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 5:06am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
NobbyR Said:
Provided that there is a difference in flow at all between pre-heated and cold, I'd expect it to be even less with a bottomless PF, because the espresso doesn't even come into contact with its metal.
Today my machine goes off for a few hours, when the cleaner have left I will pull a shot on a completely cold machine, looking forward to seeing if temp has anything to do with shot flow.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 6:04am Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
Ok maybe I am being dumb here but is anyone here espousing pulling shots through a cold PF? This notion hurts my brain if true.
Is it true that al German people listen to Techno music?
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
germantownrob Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2007 Posts: 2,017 Location: Philadelphia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,... Drip: Brazen Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Wed Mar 6, 2013, 1:17pm Subject: Re: How does temperature affect shot flow?
I stayed strong, my 1year old started rocking out some techno and it was all over for me. Lol.
Ok here it is, drum roll please.
23.3g dose on cold machine (brew boiler was 112f), cold PF ( room temp), 25sec. I was surprised at the taste, under extracted but not bad, would put it on ice for a super quick shot off a cold machine but I would grind finer to get more extraction time.
23.3g dose on machine warmed up for over an hour with PF in entire time, 25sec. Tasty.
Anything else? I do requests. Something I advice against is trying to drink espresso hanging like a bat on an inversion table. I have said it before but feel the need to repeat myself, do not make espresso naked, sure you can go trouble free many times but it is that one time you will always remember.
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