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Another DB Quickmill
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Another DB...  
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:38am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

DavecUK Said:

No I don't believe there would be any damage to the cord, outlet, wiring or fuse box.

In the UK we have 13A cords, specific capacity wiring fuses etc.., these all all take many times the rated loading for certain periods of time., the second 13.2 amps is drawn a fuse won't blow, it might never blow, at 15A it might blow after many hours at 20A after a few minutes at 30A perhaps a few seconds at 50A immediately. It's similar with Circuit breakers. The wiring in the wall is rated as so many amps, but it will carry many times that, it might get warm, it might even get hot....however it's rating is what it is. Your brief fray into the 20A world will not have done any damage as the maximum loading from your machine might have been for a few minutes, after which the brew boiler was approaching it's preset temp and the PID would have cut down that side of the power consumption markedly. not enough time for damage to have been done.

I also suspect that you could probably run the machine at 20A indefinitely on a 15A socket, presuming the wiring was in good condition (e.g. not 30 or 40 years old).....it's just that it's not rated to handle it. it might get warm etc..I am of course not recommending that you do this. Also you must have had a fuse/mcb protecting the circuit and that didn't blow or trip?

Posted September 11, 2013 link

Hi Dave, yes there is a fusebox inside my apartment and nothing blew or tripped. I was just concerned because I don't like running things above their rated settings, just out of safety's sake. After switching it to 15A for my last two drink sessions, I really don't see a performance hit at all, so I'm going to leave it there. And it's not like I would have tempted fate and run it at 20A on a 15A cord (which like you I would not recommend people do). If I would have noticed a difference I would have asked my building electrician to install a 20A outlet on a dedicated 20A circuit (about half of the switches in the fusebox are marked 20A, the other are marked 15A but I have no 20A outlets in the entire apartment). But that would have been a hassle and so since at 15A it seems to be working just fine, nearly indistinguishable from 20A, I'm just going to leave it at that.

But thanks for checking in and easing my mind with your observations and advice!
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,140
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 6:13am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

Yeah still a little confusing but much better than before. Actually the only part that's wrong which they need to correct is that part about if you're running on "6" both boiler priority that both switches need to be on or neither boiler will heat up. When I didn't know my machine was set to 6 I've powered just the brew boiler on and it worked fine. You would think it should work this way because there are people who want to run in 20A mode all the time (they have the dedicated circuit and outlet) but don't always want to make milk based drinks. It would be bad design to force those who can run in 20A mode to always have both boilers on even if they just want a shot of espresso.

Posted September 11, 2013 link

Hopefully this can be corrected on future machines. Running in 20 amp is my preferred mode for my Duetto 3 for when more then two people want milk drinks at once and IMO there is a big difference when both boilers can be on at the same time but i do not want the steam boiler on all the time. the steam boiler will heat in less then 5min especially if it doesn't have to share the time with the brew boiler so there is no need to leave it on IMO except when needed, this cuts down on potential scale build up, energy used, heat given off to the cooled house, and wear and tear. Why in the world would a home DB make it a must to have both boilers on when in 20amp mode?
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 7:11am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

germantownrob Said:

Hopefully this can be corrected on future machines. Running in 20 amp is my preferred mode for my Duetto 3 for when more then two people want milk drinks at once and IMO there is a big difference when both boilers can be on at the same time but i do not want the steam boiler on all the time. the steam boiler will heat in less then 5min especially if it doesn't have to share the time with the brew boiler so there is no need to leave it on IMO except when needed, this cuts down on potential scale build up, energy used, heat given off to the cooled house, and wear and tear. Why in the world would a home DB make it a must to have both boilers on when in 20amp mode?

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Rob - it's only the *manual* that is incorrect. The machine lets you run in 20A mode and turn only the brew boiler on if that's what you want to do. The manual incorrectly states that if you choose the 6 value that you need to have both on or it won't run. My machine was on 6 (unbeknownst to me, CCS neglected to change it to 15A mode) and I made several espresso-only drinks where I had only the brew boiler on so I can confirm first-hand that being in 20A mode does still allow you to only turn on the brew boiler. It's the manual that needs to be corrected, the machine works as we think it should.

BTW the offset reading is accurate. This morning I turned on the machine and the brew boiler was at 51 and the steam boiler at 78, before they started heating up. That's exactly 27F per the CCS offset value.
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,392
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 10:25am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

BTW the offset reading is accurate. This morning I turned on the machine and the brew boiler was at 51 and the steam boiler at 78, before they started heating up. That's exactly 27F per the CCS offset value.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Well it has to be unless something is wrong with the thermocouple....had the offset been set higher or lower it would still have been accurate?
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CarloM
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Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 10:28am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

DavecUK Said:

Well it has to be unless something is wrong with the thermocouple....had the offset been set higher or lower it would still have been accurate?

Posted September 12, 2013 link

Oh yeah I agree. It's just a few pages back DeanOK had posted that maybe he was going to try and confirm that it was correct because when he looked the numbers didn't add up, but that the boiler may have already started affecting the water temp. I just wanted to post that I looked as soon as I turned the machine on and can confirm it's accurate.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Sep 12, 2013, 10:48am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

Oh yeah I agree. It's just a few pages back DeanOK had posted that maybe he was going to try and confirm that it was correct because when he looked the numbers didn't add up, but that the boiler may have already started affecting the water temp. I just wanted to post that I looked as soon as I turned the machine on and can confirm it's accurate.

Posted September 12, 2013 link

The offset temp is simply subtracted from the boiler temp to allow for the temperature drop through the group and piping thereby giving you an indication on the front of the machine what that actual brew temperature is instead of the actual boiler temperature. The 27F number was evidently pre-determined by CCS and/or the manufacturer and assumed to be the correct number to use for all machines. I have been checking temps right at the coffee puck and I can tall you that you need about a 2 oz a warming flush before the first pull.... I haven't done a lot of testing but I am pretty sure two subsequent pulls will also be very close. For the speed demons out there that what to hurriedly pull 4 or more shot in closes succession, I have not tested that far out.

I know on my machine that the 27F number is very close... not sure its 100% though. On my setup, with my crude tools, its within about 2F if you do the warming flush first. I would not dispute it with the home made testing instruments I have.

As for the conversation about boiler priority, yes I can see where this would be confusing, and also why I don't think there is a UL rating on this appliance. The manual needs to be re-worded to say 15 amp mode and 20 amp mode instead of talking about boiler priority and then there needs to be a blurb there about safety and only using the machine on 20 amp mode when it is connected to the proper outlet.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 7:51am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

On a side note, has anyone received their 4-hole tip yet from CCS? I was told last Friday they'd send one, but I realize it may not have gone out until Monday, and if it did I won't get it until sometime between today and next Monday.

Over the last couple of days I've been getting better at micro foam. Still not good at art, but that's clearly due to my [lack of] skill in the pour. But I'm now getting the wet paint consistent throughout the milk, and this morning for the first time I successfully created the "canvas" by pouring evenly and not disturbing the uniform brown espresso canvas as the milk went in. But when it came time to form the art I failed. But it showed me I'm getting pretty much the same foam as the art-house espresso guys. It's just up to me to get better at the pour.
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DeanOK
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DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 649
Location: OK
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Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 8:32am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

CarloM Said:

On a side note, has anyone received their 4-hole tip yet from CCS? .

Posted September 13, 2013 link

I got mine a week ago today... and I think it was late in the day on the  Friday before when I let them know I didn't have one. The following Monday was a holiday so I got it in 4 business days from when I let them know.

I still don't make as good microfoam as I did with the CC1 but the CC1 took 4 or 5 times longer I have had some relatively good ones, I just am not doing it every time. The 4 hole is probably easier then the 2 hole but I wouldn't say by much.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Sep 13, 2013, 12:19pm
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

DeanOK Said:

I still don't make as good microfoam as I did with the CC1 but the CC1 took 4 or 5 times longer I have had some relatively good ones, I just am not doing it every time. The 4 hole is probably easier then the 2 hole but I wouldn't say by much.

Posted September 13, 2013 link

My Silvia was a fast steamer, but almost too fast, and single-hole, so even though I'm steaming in about the same amount of time, my microfoam is definitely improved. I don't expect the 4-hold tip to be a panacea or substitute for good technique. I clearly still have a lot to learn, especially at the pouring stage.

I will say the biggest hurdle for me to overcome is learning how to stretch the milk all over again. The optimal angle is different for stretching with a multi-hole tip than it is for a single hole tip, more straight down rather than angled. And also closer to the center of the pitcher rather than between the center and a side. Also listening closely to make sure you're getting a soft, spaced apart tshh-tshh rather than the more regular sound I got from my Silvia.

Knowing when to go from stretching to steaming/folding into the milk is also different. I'm steaming a little earlier in the process than I was with the Silvia, right about when the pitcher gets warm to the touch.

I look forward to having to re-learn steaming once the 4-hole tip arrives. :D
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 321
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 14, 2013, 10:19am
Subject: Re: Another DB Quickmill - Monster Thread
 

Well that went about as expected. Tip arrived yesterday, attached it last night, had difficulty getting the swirl this morning. Lesson learned for next time. The smaller overall tip size kind of threw me off. I think I wasn't getting the right amount of the tip under the milk for stretching, and by the time I (over)corrected I brought in too much air which I couldn't fully incorporate because I couldn't figure out how to get the swirl. I think I'll practice with water and soap later today.
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