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Dialing in the CC1 (again)
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 720
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 3:35am
Subject: Dialing in the CC1 (again)
 

Woke up way too early this morning and was thinking about why I can't make a decent espresso... ended up getting up an hour and half before the alarm and started going through my setup on the CC1 again. I had recently turned my machine up to 205F based on this analysis:
Click Here (10000shots.com)

Some of you may remember that I had taken internal portafilter temperatures several weeks ago with a fast reacting low mass thermocouple inside of the portafilter. Even though I wrote about it here in the CG forum, I didn't look at the write up before writing this post because I used a different methodology this time... so the results may be totally different.

Since I didn't have a portafilter basket or a blind basket I wanted to destroy, I rand the K thermocouple up through the bottom of the portafilter and then I packed the portafilter tightly with wet coffee filters to offer some restriction to flow the flow rate down to something that is more normal for real world. Flow rate was still a little fast but did the best I could with what I had.

To my surprise, I was getting about 210 degree water after 3 or 4 seconds at the top of the portafilter (above my packed coffee filter that I put in to create the restriction. I had about 1 oz of volume at this point. I realize this is a pretty high flow rate, but again, doing the best I could with what I had The boiler set point was 205 on the display when I started.

The water temperature varies quite a bit, but it order to try to average a 200-201 temperature at the top of the coffee bed when total flow was no more than 2 oz, I decided I needed to set the machine at 197. If you let the pump run long enough with this restriction, the water temperature will actually rise to 205 or so, but I don't think this is going to be an issue with a normal double shot.

I realize at this point that this info contradicts the analysis I have linked above. Just throwing this out their for other CC1 owners who are finding their shots not so hot (like me).

I am sitting here drinking a mocha that I made this morning at 197F and it is pretty good... but I will need more successes to say for sure that 197 is the right temperature for me. BTW, this morning I am using Redline. They recommend a brew temperature of 200.5 if I remember correctly. The most significant info here for me is that I have never ran this machine at  this low of a temperature before (at leat I don't remember if I did).... so maybe I will have some different stories to tell instead of how bad my shots are.
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fredk01
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 136
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 9:05am
Subject: Re: Dialing in the CC1 (again)
 

I remember reading somewhere that the CC1 comes from the factory with an offset programed in.  I suspect that if you get consistent shots at close to the 200 setting on your machine, that the factory offset is close to the correct value, as it should be.

I wonder how they do the offset at the factory?  Do they program it by measuring each machine or do the do some sort of 'best fit' based on a series of lab measurements?  I would not be surprised if the offset on each machine is off a little in one direction or another.  I wonder what a reasonable +/- variation assumption would be?  +/- 1 degree, 2 degrees...??
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myallawala
Senior Member
myallawala
Joined: 25 Dec 2012
Posts: 86
Location: San Antonio, TX
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Mazzer Major & Baratza Vario
Vac Pot: Yama Burner
Drip: Hario V60 & Chemex
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 2:31pm
Subject: Re: Dialing in the CC1 (again)
 

I have the CC1 and I won't lie--I don't have total faith in the PID display. But I have found I can make it work for me. I do a few things to increase my consistency:

First, here are my two programs: (Adjust the temps as necessary. I adjust based on the coffee itself so the Temp for program A varies week to week.)

Program A:
Temp: 204F
Pre: 3s
Wait: 2s
Brew: 35s
Total 40s

Program B:
202F
Pre: 0s
Wait: 0s
Brew: 34s
Total: 34s

And here is my routine:
-Use program B for 12s and flush ~4-5oz water through the group
-Switch to Program A to allow to recover to 204F
-Prep portafilter and wait to 204F
-Flush 2-3s
-Immediately lock and brew (and I purposefully set my total to 40s in case I'm brewing a tight ristretto or I packed extra coffee and want to drag the brew time out or something OR I can just cut it when I want)

Seems pretty consistent to my taste buds.

I use the PID as a point of reference or starting point less than an actual guide..
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Apr 2, 2013, 3:08pm
Subject: Re: Dialing in the CC1 (again)
 

I could be off base, but played around with temperatures, PID, and thermofilters some in the Gaggia.  If you leave the basket out of the PF, then you may pick up more PF heat.  The basket has relatively little mass compared to the PF.  The basket contact is only the rim, so not so much heat transfer.  If the PF was alreasy 200F+ locked in, it could affect the reading assuming that I understand what you did.  PF, no basket?  You are trying for taste not necessarily temperature technique, so it may not matter :)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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