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Water dance question..
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Water dance...  
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dougz
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 255
Location: Mackenzie, BC
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Sat Apr 20, 2013, 3:45pm
Subject: Water dance question..
 

Why does the PF has to be in place for this?

I can see when it stops flashing off much better when it's off..

Thanks!

PS:  It's in my profile, but I'm using a Bezzera 07..
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dsblv
Senior Member


Joined: 2 Dec 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Bellevue, WA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Rocket Giotto Evoluzione
Grinder: MACAP MC4
Posted Sat Apr 20, 2013, 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

The portafilter does not have to be in place when flushing an HX.   I flush based on the sound of the water coming from the group head.  I've always done my flushing without the portafilter and get very consistent results.
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dougz
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 255
Location: Mackenzie, BC
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Sat Apr 20, 2013, 7:09pm
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

Is it a safety thing, possibly?
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,950
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat Apr 20, 2013, 8:19pm
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

I flush with the PF off, I always have and see no reason to change.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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dougz
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 255
Location: Mackenzie, BC
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Sat Apr 20, 2013, 8:33pm
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

Works for me..

The how-to's I looked at on the subject always had it in there, so I just went with it..  

But I can't make out much of anything when it's in place.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Sun Apr 21, 2013, 8:05am
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

I don't use the basket in place, it messes up the flow and I can't read it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 5:39am
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

I've never seen an example with it in place!  I certainly don't do it that way.
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dougz
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 255
Location: Mackenzie, BC
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Lelit PL53
Drip: Technivorm
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 5:57am
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

Cool..  Glad I'm not the only one questioning the logic..

Click Here (www.home-barista.com)
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,052
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 6:41am
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

I will try to get a video showing my Oscar after an hour or more of sitting idle.  It is extreme from all over the place to a stream now that I have upgraded the thermosyphon.  Before it took a long time and harder to see the change.  Now that it is doing it in less than half the volume of water it is crystal clear when the super heated water is purged.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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dyqik
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Posts: 383
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 PM
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso...
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: Bona-Vita, CCD, Aeropress.
Roaster: Gene Cafe, Modded Poppers
Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013, 6:56am
Subject: Re: Water dance question..
 

hmm.  It seems I've never read the H-B page on HX machines properly, as that says to do it with the PF in place.

Doing the flush with the PF in place seems wrong, at least on my machine - firstly the water dance doesn't produce any splashing on my machine, so there's no safety issue.  Secondly, the flush flushes out debris from the last shot - into the PF, which then needs to be cleaned out again.  Thirdly, the HX recovery time is pretty short, so you've only got 30s to clean, dry, fill, distribute and tamp the basket after the flush - way too short to do a decent job of WDT and tamping for me first thing in the morning!  Most importantly, the water dance on my BZ07 is very quiet because the group runs colder than brew temperatue - I can't hear it if the kettle or stove is boiling water nearby, so I'd never hear it with the PF in place.

I guess the difference between the BZ07 and the various E61 dragons is important here - the group on the BZ07 idles below brew temperature (about 170-180F or so, I think), so the water dance is much less violent than on a machine with the group running closer to the boiler temperature.
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