Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Espresso Machines
Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
Learn @seattlecoffeegear
Learn all about coffee, watch videos, read how-to articles.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Having hard time...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
MonkeyK
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Aeropress, Bunn Phase Brew
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Apr 22, 2013, 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

Zevi Said:

Oh, yes (I knew I forgot something...):  Why do I want to buy this if I can buy something like this?

Thanks,
Zevi

Posted April 18, 2013 link

The power on for the VII is different than just flipping a switch.  Spazialle made a complex timer interface, that is supposed to be capable of more than just power on/off, but I have only ever seen the timer module.  The timer interface has some sort of data signal that tells it to power up.  The positive side of this is that you can start the machine when you like to make sure it is properly warmed up and then when you are done brewing, you just turn the machine off.  The next day it turns back on at the appointed time. With a less integrated timer, you need to either turn off the machine at the timer, or let the timer turn it off (or remember to turn the machine back on after the timer shuts off).

Folks at S1Cafe have figured out how to replicate the manual power on sequence (hold the power button for 4 seconds) with home automation tools.  I have also successfully hacked my VII to start with a $60 pulse event timer including tapping the VII for power.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MonkeyK
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Aeropress, Bunn Phase Brew
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 4:53am
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

I would like to make a few more points.  Before I do so, I will disclaim that I am not an experienced reviewer, just a normal user.  I have owned three machines in my few years as a home barista: a SBDU Solis SL-90, an HX/E-61 Euro2000 Jr, and now own a Vivaldi II (not the mini). I bought all of my machines used.

If you plan to buy new, I would really recommend contacting Chris Coffee and asking them to help you decide.


That said:
1) Preinfusion on a vibe pump is not as big a deal as you may think.  Vibe pumps have a slower ramp-up time to full pressure.  The E-61 slows that ramp up a little bit more.  My recollecton from looking at S1Cafe threads discussing the preinfusion chamber, is that people who worry that they haven't done everything they can to reduce channeling like the peace of mind that they have taken one more step.  People who have tried to objectively compare with and without preinfusion say that it doesn't offer much.
2) The Vivaldi Dream looks funny and shows a lot of promise, but it is also still buggy.  The VII (and Mini), however, are proven designs and work well enough that they are often chosen for light comercial duty.
3) Vivaldi work space is a bit more cramped.  On the E61 machines, the area around the group and steam wand are open, but on the Vivaldi, there is an overhang so cups and hands have motion restricted to only directly in front of the machine.  IMO this is not a big deal.  Regarding clearance under the group, this is machine specific and I cannot comment on the Quickmill.  The Vivaldi has a little less group clearance than I would like, but I can fit the coffee mugs we use under it, so I don't consider it a problem
4) Is the 53 vs. 58mm an issue? In terms of extraction, no it is not.  There are some things that are available for 58mm that are not available for 53mm: some tampers, VST baskets, and bottomless portafilters are cheaper (but how many of those are you going to buy?).  It is different than 58mm, but there are lots of LaSpaziale and Dalla Corte users who make great coffee.
5) Front-flexing of the QM67.  Not sure how much flex you saw, but all E61 machines that I have seen have a bit of flex.
6) Steam boiler draining:  IIRC, the Mini added a steam boiler drain a few years ago.
7) Volumetric dosing: personally, I like it a lot.  But I get easily distracted.  Not having to think so much about volume also makes it easier to steam milk while the coffee extracts.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CSME9
Senior Member
CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 287
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 6:26am
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

DavecUK SAID: I own a Rocket R58, Izzo Alex Duetto, Fraciono heavenly and now a Quickmill Vetrano DB (Yeah, I decided I was going to keep my review machine).
Dave



Hey DavecUK,  If you could only own one of the three, R58, Duetto or Vetrano 2b which one and why ? I am especially interested in your R58 thoughts. Thanks
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Zevi
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 119
Location: Ann Arbor
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 8:09am
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

Thanks for taking the time to respond with that info, Mike!

Preinfusion on a vibe pump is not as big a deal as you may think.  

Probably. I have not mentioned it before, but what I have now is Breville 800ESXL. So some of the features I desire to have are from reading posts, not necessarily from experiencing first-hand the need for them. I do admit that several posts I read are quite dismissive of the pre-infusion benefits. BTW: although I'm growing critical of the quality of the shots from my Breville, I should say that reliability-wise it has served me well with zero problems for almost 7 years.

The Vivaldi Dream looks funny and shows a lot of promise, but it is also still buggy.  The VII (and Mini), however, are proven designs and work well enough that they are often chosen for light commercial duty.

For me, the Dream really stopped being an option. I was only considering the Mini V2.

...Regarding clearance under the group, this is machine specific and I cannot comment on the Quickmill.  The Vivaldi has a little less group clearance than I would like, but I can fit the coffee mugs we use under it, so I don't consider it a problem

My comments came because I saw some posts on S1Cafe where people even pulled out temporarily the drip tray so they can put a glass under the brew head. Sure, not a typical situation, but an indication of the cramped space.

Front-flexing of the QM67.  Not sure how much flex you saw, but all E61 machines that I have seen have a bit of flex.

If you look at Chris' video (at about 5:34) you can see it. Maybe exaggerated due to reflection.  Is that what you'd consider common from what you've seen?

Steam boiler draining:  IIRC, the Mini added a steam boiler drain a few years ago.

That's another thing I didn't even know I should be looking for. How often or under what circumstances do you need to drain the boiler?

Volumetric dosing: personally, I like it a lot.  But I get easily distracted.  Not having to think so much about volume also makes it easier to steam milk while the coffee extracts.

Yes, it does sound like a very convenient feature, but again -- many on S1Cafe (they even had a poll about that) don't use it; they just set it to a long duration and stop the shot manually.

Thanks again, Zevi.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
MonkeyK
Senior Member


Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 214
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Vivaldi II
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Aeropress, Bunn Phase Brew
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 10:55am
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

OK, just looked at the video.  I'd say that the flex is consistent with what I saw on my Euro2000.  It is disconcerting, but likely not a problem.

The steam boiler drain is a rarely used but nice feature.  You would drain the steam boiler as part of a descale (maybe once a year) or before shipping (probably one time ever).  If you cannot drain the steam boiler, you would need to run hot water out of it until you diluted any descaling solution to a negligible level.

Even among those who mostly ignore the volumetric dosing, I think that you will find it being used
-as a preset group warming flush to run while filling/prepping the PF
-as a fall back (e.g. if I will never pull more than a certain dose, then I can always stop it short but if I get distracted, my shot cannot go too far off)
-to make it easier for a less geeky SO to make a latte.  To me this has been the biggest benefit.  Reducing the variables makes the process more approachable for my wife.  This makes her more accepting of me having spent a lot of money on coffee equipment.

After reviewing the specs on the Quickmill, I think both are great machines. Upgrading from your Breville, either machine is going to delight you.  I still think that Chris Coffee can give you the best responses on why to choose one over the other.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 1:02pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

MonkeyK Said:

The steam boiler drain is a rarely used but nice feature.  You would drain the steam boiler as part of a descale (maybe once a year) or before shipping (probably one time ever).  If you cannot drain the steam boiler, you would need to run hot water out of it until you diluted any descaling solution to a negligible level.

Posted April 23, 2013 link

It's an essential feature, you would find it incredibly difficult to get descaler out of the boiler otherwise, because of the Solenoid Valve water wand on the Vivaldi. It was something I pointed out to them years ago.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 1:09pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

CSME9 Said:

DavecUK SAID: I own a Rocket R58, Izzo Alex Duetto, Fraciono heavenly and now a Quickmill Vetrano DB (Yeah, I decided I was going to keep my review machine).
Dave



Hey DavecUK,  If you could only own one of the three, R58, Duetto or Vetrano 2b which one and why ? I am especially interested in your R58 thoughts. Thanks

Posted April 23, 2013 link

Well that's a very difficult question.....I have not finished the Vetrano review yet, but lets say this, I will probably not be putting the Duetto back on the counter.....in favour of the Vetrano staying there....it's a well sorted machine. That said there are some things I am insisting QM change...but not that much.

My R58 thoughts remain my own, as does my machine remain in it's box.....In fairness I did have a pre-production model, which unfortunately went into production almost unchanged....luckily though they quickly realised their error and have significantly upgraded the machine since I last saw it. So I cannot really comment on it's current incarnation, except to say people seem happy and they seem to have sorted out the problems. I believe I will be getting another to test when I have time/inclination to do it. In a sense I owe Andrew Meo another look at the latest machine, I will give them any feedback as I did before. Hopefully this time the machine is right for the market?

So....for me, the Vetrano 2B once they have done my requested modifications.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 1:13pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

DavecUK Said:

Well that's a very difficult question.....I have not finished the Vetrano review yet, but lets say this, I will probably not be putting the Duetto back on the counter.....in favour of the Vetrano staying there....it's a well sorted machine. That said there are some things I am insisting QM change...but not that much.

My R58 thoughts remain my own, as does my machine remain in it's box.....In fairness I did have a pre-production model, which unfortunately went into production almost unchanged....luckily though they quickly realised their error and have significantly upgraded the machine since I last saw it. So I cannot really comment on it's current incarnation, except to say people seem happy and they seem to have sorted out the problems. I believe I will be getting another to test when I have time/inclination to do it. In a sense I owe Andrew Meo another look at the latest machine, I will give them any feedback as I did before. Hopefully this time the machine is right for the market?

So....for me, the Vetrano 2B once they have done my requested modifications.

Posted April 23, 2013 link

Good to hear Dave.. Do you think they will actually make the changes and if not are the changes something we can do on our own? If the changes arent made is this a machine I should still consider?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,452
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 4:13pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

cuznvin Said:

Good to hear Dave.. Do you think they will actually make the changes and if not are the changes something we can do on our own? If the changes arent made is this a machine I should still consider?

Posted April 23, 2013 link

I think they will make the changes, if they don't most you can do on your own, in fact theres probably only one which you wouldn't be able to do. If the changes are not made, you can do all the key ones yourself quite easily. many of the things are basic QC issues, so they shouldn't really be a problem. The one thing you can't do yourself, is the addition of some stuff to make descaling easier....BUT, it's not a deal breaker.

However, wait for my review, what I look for in a machine "may" be very different to what you look for. The Duetto has strayed a little from my initial top level design guidelines (not for the better), the Quickmill is truer to what it is and has an elegant simplicity of design, but done well. The formulae for boilers/heating elements seems to be exactly the same as the recommendations I made after testing their little vibe pump machine (at the time it had no name, but you call it the QM67?). The QM67 was OK, but improvements in boiler and heating element sizing would help a lot in the next DB machine they made.

Wait for the review, will be another few days, perhaps a week....as I am still waiting for various schematics (electrical, hydraulic) from Quickmill, plus feedback on what they will change, because I don't like to make too many assumptions in a review.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Tue Apr 23, 2013, 4:20pm
Subject: Re: Having hard time deciding between QuickMill QM67 and La Spaziale...
 

DavecUK Said:

I think they will make the changes, if they don't most you can do on your own, in fact theres probably only one which you wouldn't be able to do. If the changes are not made, you can do all the key ones yourself quite easily. many of the things are basic QC issues, so they shouldn't really be a problem. The one thing you can't do yourself, is the addition of some stuff to make descaling easier....BUT, it's not a deal breaker.

However, wait for my review, what I look for in a machine "may" be very different to what you look for. The Duetto has strayed a little from my initial top level design guidelines (not for the better), the Quickmill is truer to what it is and has an elegant simplicity of design, but done well. The formulae for boilers/heating elements seems to be exactly the same as the recommendations I made after testing their little vibe pump machine (at the time it had no name, but you call it the QM67?). The QM67 was OK, but improvements in boiler and heating element sizing would help a lot in the next DB machine they made.

Wait for the review, will be another few days, perhaps a week....as I am still waiting for various schematics (electrical, hydraulic) from Quickmill, plus feedback on what they will change, because I don't like to make too many assumptions in a review.

Posted April 23, 2013 link

Awesome.. thanks so much..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Having hard time...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Rancilio Silvia - How to
Step by step guide for easy brewing and steaming with the Rancilio Silvia
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.489395856857)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+