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Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Izzo Alex II HX...  
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 12:07pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

As you can see, everyone makes a different suggestion. This is why I still dont have a machine. The choices are overwhelming. The problems and poor engineering of some machines are discouraging. I Had pretty much decided on a Vario W, then I see people complaining about consistency issues. The choice is mind boggling....
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 12:08pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

BTW, some companies give you a big discount on a grinder when you bundle it with a machine... Dont always go by advertised prices. Call the companies directly..
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 12:09pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

Because the Breville has to be professionally descaled, uses proprietary parts and I wouldn't likely be able to do some repairs myself, I think I will pass on it.

It does look like a good machine for the money though.
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 12:11pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

I have read some posts where people say that the sliders on the Vario tend to slip down when the machine is grinding and they have to keep resetting them but
I don't know if this is actually a problem with the grinder or user error.

I agree that the choices of machines (and grinders) is overwhelming.
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

JaniceAnn Said:

I have read some posts where people say that the sliders on the Vario tend to slip down when the machine is grinding and they have to keep resetting them but
I don't know if this is actually a problem with the grinder or user error.

I agree that the choices of machines (and grinders) is overwhelming.

Posted May 19, 2013 link

How many posts have you read praising the Vario?

I have had 3 Vario's in 4.5 years, I only bought 1.2 of them, lol. The first one back when they came out had every problem there was, the replacement worked trouble free of heavy use for 2 years  and then the motor wore out, they where about to send me a new motor when I brought up the idea of trading my old one in and some money for the Vario-W. I also have a Virtuoso that is 7+ years old and a Preciso matched with an Esatto, each grinder at some point needed some fixing and Baratza has taken care of all issues even well out of warenty. What I like about the Baratza Vario for espresso is the home kitchen friendly size which performs as well a commercial sized Supper Jolly.

Yes this can all get very overwhelming, it has taken me many years to become comfortable and somewhat knowledgable with all the gear that is out there and how to go about researching It. Now mix in cooking, Smoking foods, coffee roasting, cars (big and small), some baking, and I raise my two children under 5. Many times I cannot answer simple question like what is your phone number or how old are you because of all the other things floating around my brain. None of here here  can solve this overwhelming inflow of coffee related info but we do all understand it and try in our own ways to help.

All the years I have been reading this forum Wayne (CBS) has been a helpful, knowledgable,sweet man, then he became a MOD, I guess the dark side is in us all ( that is all just a bad joke). Glad you came back and please stick around, you may find out how much of a coffee geek you really are.
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

Thanks for your "welcome back".  I really appreciate it.

I know very little about the Vario but a lot of people own and recommend them.  I see that Chris' Coffee uses them as the go to grinder in their videos and they wouldn't use them
if they didn't do a good job.  I have read that Baratza has excellent customer service.

I think one problem is that people are more likely to post when they have a problem that they are to praise an item when it is working well.  I have noticed that about washing machines and
dryers lately as I was doing research on a new dryer.  One person actually posted that the dryer she bought was too expensive and had a lot of features that she would never use.  I guess she didn't do any
research before she bought it.

Chris' Coffee recommended the regular Vario but I wonder if I would be happier with the Vario-W?  What has been your experience?
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 4:11pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

JaniceAnn Said:

Thanks for your "welcome back".  I really appreciate it.


Chris' Coffee recommended the regular Vario but I wonder if I would be happier with the Vario-W?  What has been your experience?

Posted May 19, 2013 link

Well when my motor went on the Vario the timer was worthless so I had to weigh everything, before that I could just do a few weighs of a new bean and be pretty accurate with the timer. When I started weighing everything again I realized how much difference .5-1g made on the shot, the Vario-W makes this level of geekyness easy. I added the Esatto to the Preciso that I use for drip and other brew methods because is is accurate and easy for the wife and I to get the exact amount of grind for a specific purpose, easy peasy.

What you  can't do with the Vario -W is grind directly into the PF which you can do on the Vario, this is a big deal to some. The Vario makes a wonderful fluffy grind with no clumps, problem is it overflows the basket, an O.E. funnel or cut down yogurt cup solves the huge pile of grinds until its tapped down, this same setup solves the pouring from the grinder basket of the W into the PF without loosing any grinds and making a mess. Yes it is an extra step to those that don't weigh.

Personally I think you could limp by with the grinder you have with what ever machine you end up getting. Grinder upgrades are the biggest improvement to taste I have experienced though my coffee journey. Well there was one greater, coffee roaster and consumed with in 3 weeks. It is all about evenness of grind that allows extraction to happen consistently and this can be tasted by almost anyone that likes coffee. A Vario out performs a Preciso when it comes to espresso grinding but it is reversed when it come to coarser grinding. flat burrs vs conical burrs can produce different tastes for exact same extraction times for espresso. However there is a diminishing return on the amount of money spent on all this equipment and your taste buds have to learn to taste the differences. I believe I mentioned this earlier in your other thread, spend your money wisely and buy quality so your gear last a long time and performs to your expectations. Features will cost you when they are paired with quality, volumetric dosing may be nice but there are 3 different kinds, the one I want isn't on many machines below $3k and it is what you are thinking the others do, but they don't do it as well.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

germantownrob Said:

Well when my motor went on the Vario the timer was worthless so I had to weigh everything, before that I could just do a few weighs of a new bean and be pretty accurate with the timer. When I started weighing everything again I realized how much difference .5-1g made on the shot, the Vario-W makes this level of geekyness easy. I added the Esatto to the Preciso that I use for drip and other brew methods because is is accurate and easy for the wife and I to get the exact amount of grind for a specific purpose, easy peasy.

What you  can't do with the Vario -W is grind directly into the PF which you can do on the Vario, this is a big deal to some. The Vario makes a wonderful fluffy grind with no clumps, problem is it overflows the basket, an O.E. funnel or cut down yogurt cup solves the huge pile of grinds until its tapped down, this same setup solves the pouring from the grinder basket of the W into the PF without loosing any grinds and making a mess. Yes it is an extra step to those that don't weigh.

Personally I think you could limp by with the grinder you have with what ever machine you end up getting. Grinder upgrades are the biggest improvement to taste I have experienced though my coffee journey. Well there was one greater, coffee roaster and consumed with in 3 weeks. It is all about evenness of grind that allows extraction to happen consistently and this can be tasted by almost anyone that likes coffee. A Vario out performs a Preciso when it comes to espresso grinding but it is reversed when it come to coarser grinding. flat burrs vs conical burrs can produce different tastes for exact same extraction times for espresso. However there is a diminishing return on the amount of money spent on all this equipment and your taste buds have to learn to taste the differences. I believe I mentioned this earlier in your other thread, spend your money wisely and buy quality so your gear last a long time and performs to your expectations. Features will cost you when they are paired with quality, volumetric dosing may be nice but there are 3 different kinds, the one I want isn't on many machines below $3k and it is what you are thinking the others do, but they don't do it as well.

Posted May 19, 2013 link


What are the 3 different kinds?
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germantownrob
Senior Member
germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,156
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 5:15pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

cuznvin Said:

What are the 3 different kinds?

Posted May 19, 2013 link

1 measuring by time.
2 Low pressure flow meter placed between the water reservoir and pump so before the OPV
3 a High pressure flow meter able to take 8-12 bar

the first two can"t accurately measure the flow to deliver an accurate volume with multiple changes that can happen with simple grind changes. beans changes, or dose changes. the third gives the best chance of getting the volume you want but it seems many program it a bit long and stop manually because day to day and even hour to hour changes to the beans require slight changes to the brew time. Simple things in the prep can also alter the outcome of a shot, watching the flow and color can make the difference in a sink shot and a keeper.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sun May 19, 2013, 5:29pm
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

germantownrob Said:

1 measuring by time.
2 Low pressure flow meter placed between the water reservoir and pump so before the OPV
3 a High pressure flow meter able to take 8-12 bar

the first two can"t accurately measure the flow to deliver an accurate volume with multiple changes that can happen with simple grind changes. beans changes, or dose changes. the third gives the best chance of getting the volume you want but it seems many program it a bit long and stop manually because day to day and even hour to hour changes to the beans require slight changes to the brew time. Simple things in the prep can also alter the outcome of a shot, watching the flow and color can make the difference in a sink shot and a keeper.

Posted May 19, 2013 link

Interesting.. Do you know which type the NS Musica uses? Im pretty sure I remember seeing a flowmeter on a chart for the machine. See pg 21

Click Here (nuovasimonelliusa.com)


From what I can see it is number 2......
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