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Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Izzo Alex II HX...  
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 8:46am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

germantownrob Said:

Cooling flushes are how you get to the brew temp you want on a HX whether it is PID or PS controlled.

Posted May 18, 2013 link

DOesnt lowering the boiler temp a degree or two change the brew temp??
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 8:52am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

True the HX takes more operator skill to use but it very quickly becomes second nature and you don't even think about it any more, you just make espresso and adjust as needed without the mental hoops you are thinking about right now.

I have been using my HX machine for over 4 years and have no desire to either add a brew group thermometer or to switch to a DB machine. I have yet to have anyone I brew for to not love my shots. It is also true that my " dream machine is a DB machine, but that has nothing to do with why I want it, there are many other features  I like it for but at over $6k I will not being picking it up any time soon.

Like I said above, a PID will not improve your shot temp but if you like the pretty readout, there is nothing wrong with that and you are very free to buy machine with one and if it makes you more comfortable then it has some value in that respect.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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JaniceAnn
Senior Member


Joined: 15 May 2013
Posts: 185
Location: Virginia
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 8:59am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

Actually I don't care about the PID on the Alex.  That is just the way it comes.  Chris says that is is more reliable than a Pressure Stat and that is why he asked Izzo to make them with a PID.

I was thinking about the brew head thermometer as I thought it might make it easier to me to know how long to flush the machine before brewing a shot.  If I don't need it, I certainly don't mind saving the money.  

I have never had a semi-automatic machine so I am sort of feeling my way around.

I don't have a preference for HX or DB really.  My husband likes the volumetric programming on the Mini Vivaldi and the front water tank so that is why it is in consideration.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:01am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

cuznvin Said:

DOesnt lowering the boiler temp a degree or two change the brew temp??

Posted May 18, 2013 link

hX is an indirect transfer of temp. A deg or two has no affect on the ability of the machine to pull a proper shot, this where your skill comes in. It is not hard to learn and quickly becomes second nature.

Changing the temp on a PID is not an instant change in brew temp, the machine needs to adjust to the new set temp, there is a lot of thermal mass to change, not just the temp of the water, this can take from 5 to 15 minutes depending on the size of the change.

A HX,  can change temp slightly from shot to shot  if you wish or it can be the same shot to shot, it just takes more time with the machine, the learning curve.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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CSME9
Senior Member
CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 281
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:01am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

If I buy the Mini Vivaldi II from Clive Coffee, they give a $75 gift certificate which would cover all but $5.00 of the cost of the preinfusion chamber.  I am not sure that I need it anyway.  On the Mini Vivaldi I don't think it can be programmed or shut off.


JaniceAnn: I believe all Mini's are out of stock until next shipment sometime in June.
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CSME9
Senior Member
CSME9
Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 281
Location: West Texas
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Mitica Top, Spaz...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky
Drip: Moka Pot
Roaster: BBQ Roaster
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:04am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

PID on an HX eliminates the mechanical pressure stat which are less reliable and click on and off.
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cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:08am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

calblacksmith Said:

hX is an indirect transfer of temp. A deg or two has no affect on the ability of the machine to pull a proper shot, this where your skill comes in. It is not hard to learn and quickly becomes second nature.

Changing the temp on a PID is not an instant change in brew temp, the machine needs to adjust to the new set temp, there is a lot of thermal mass to change, not just the temp of the water, this can take from 5 to 15 minutes depending on the size of the change.

A HX,  can change temp slightly from shot to shot  if you wish or it can be the same shot to shot, it just takes more time with the machine, the learning curve.

Posted May 18, 2013 link

I got that from watching a SCG video. She said that changing the temp- on the PID had a direct affect on brew temp . She changed the temp a few degrees, waited 20 mins and then tested the brew water coming out and it would change as she changed the PID temp..
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

A matter of preference, I like the very quiet click and hardly ever hear it from my seat 8 feet away from the machine.
My machine is 10 years old and is still on the original Pstat but yes any mechanical device can wear out so on paper the statement is true, in real life, it isn't a huge deal, not to me anyway but for accuracy of the shot it is a moot point.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,775
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:15am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

cuznvin Said:

I got that from watching a SCG video. She said that changing the temp- on the PID had a direct affect on brew temp . She changed the temp a few degrees, waited 20 mins and then tested the brew water coming out and it would change as she changed the PID temp..

Posted May 18, 2013 link

I pull my shots faster than 20 minutes apart,
Operator skill can easily override the small change that the PID setting makes.

Remember, they are selling machines, they are not an educational site.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
cuznvin
Senior Member


Joined: 6 Oct 2011
Posts: 656
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II
Grinder: MACAP M4 Stepless /Baratza...
Drip: YouBrew
Posted Sat May 18, 2013, 9:16am
Subject: Re: Izzo Alex II HX on Sale or Mini Vivaldi II?
 

calblacksmith Said:

I pull my shots faster than 20 minutes apart,
Operator skill can easily override the small change that the PID setting makes.

Remember, they are selling machines, they are not an educational site.

Posted May 18, 2013 link

LOL... makes sense..
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