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Commercial/Prosumer Machine Recommendations
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Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,206
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Jul 16, 2013, 6:41am
Subject: Re: Commercial/Prosumer Machine Recommendations

A little work on your part and a HX is VERY stable and repeatable.
It really comes down to you and what you want and how you use the machine.

If you only use one coffee all the time, never vary and always make the same shot, a DB is less prone to operator error and you can use it in your sleep. If however you want to use different coffee, play with temps or try to eek out that last bit of perfection, a HX may be what you want to look at.

Some new people tend to think that just because the number that is desired shows up on a PID, that the machine is stable at the new temp, that is not true, the machine needs time to adjust and become stable, 10 to 15 minutes or so. This makes changing temp shot to shot a long process and is why after it is warmed up, you can do it in your sleep, there just is not a lot that changes. That could be good or bad depending on what you want.

A HX requires that you pay attention to what you are doing, there is a little more room for movement on the temp of the shot according to how you, the operator works the machine. It is not hard to be consistent or to move the shot temp a couple of deg F if you want to but you need to pay attention. Conversely, you can repeat the shot you just made too if you wish, it is all up to you, the operator of the machine.

Some people prefer one way to pull shots and some other people prefer the other, neither is better than the other for the community on the whole but for a particular person, one will serve the needs  of that person better. Good? Bad? no, just different. YMMV!

In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Senior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 658
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jul 16, 2013, 7:07am
Subject: Re: Commercial/Prosumer Machine Recommendations

Another issue to to be considered is that DB machines are harder to maintain. Initially, I was considering an Izzo Alex Duetto III, but decided against it because the innards were very tightly packed and it didn't look self-serviceable. I also considered the Vibiemme Domobar Super DB, but again, I worried about maintenance. I went with another HX machine eventually because I have worked on them before and honestly I never bought into the PID hype. Sure you can control your brew temp, but if your tamp is just slightly off, or you dosed the coffee wrong, the water will have a dramatically different effect on shot quality, even if the PID says the temperature is perfect.
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