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Espresso: Espresso Machines
Looking for advice on new machine.
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Fri Jul 19, 2013, 9:59pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Yes I have read this post.  But I thought Graef CM800 would be a good grinder but now people say it is a wedding gift toy nobody will use it. So you know I get mixed signals here, cause according to the specs of that grinder it looks pretty good and don't see how that grinder is wrong.  And for that price of only the grinder I can already get Nespresso machine with a bunch of free capsules with it.  Now of course since I love cappuccino I have to spend a bit more on an aerocino as well.

I did some more reading on other websites too and read people that had Gaggia Classic piston machine and traded it in for Nespresso.  And some thought that the Nespresso was tasting better, others just commented that the Gaggia is ONLY better when you are a true barista and willing to fiddle endlessly to make it perfect.  So basicly what they mean Gaggia Cl;assic Piston machine can be better, but in real life in average joe's kitchen it's probably worse then a Nespresso.

So for me it is probably best to go with Nespresso.  I was just hoping to find something else but I guess I was on the right track after all to buy Nespresso.  I hve owned one before and Nespresso make better coffee/cappuccino then many commercial coffee places that i have tasted.

I am not saying you cannot get any better then Nespresso. I am just saying there is a lot worse out there (a lot worse...).
It is probabaly not the machines fault either just either the person operating it is an idiot or they buy crappy bean.

Nespresso Arpeggio or Ristretto capsule with Aerocinno is beating the hell out of a Starbuck cappuccino I can tell you that (same goes for many other coffee places).
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 12:12am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

But I thought Graef CM800 would be a good grinder but now people say it is a wedding gift toy nobody will use it.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, the big problem is with your budget. A lot of people make the mistake of buying espresso equipment which is cheap, cheap, cheap thinking that they can get something like what they get at the cafe
and when they don't, they get disappointed, put the machine up on the shelf and forget about it. This eventually results in a complete waste of time and money. I mean, why waste $100 on a junky grinder and another
$250 on a junky machine when you can spend double that and get yourself something you'll be happy with?

When someone comes here and asks for suggestions, I try to compromise down to the budget they put forth. I've learned fast that there is a LOT that goes into an espresso machine. Manufacturers cut all kinds of corners
to bring the prices down, including build quality, cheap plastics, thermoblocks, pressurized portafilters (Mainly to compensate for lousy coffee grinders) and flimsy construction. To me, a lot of these cheap machines on the
market are merely toys which are designed to last a few short years and break down so you'll buy another one.

The true cost of buying quality, IMHO, starts at roughly the $1000 mark. That's for a grinder, machine and some accessories. Don't let the price shock you. If you don't believe me, do this..

Go out to a department store, find a cheap espresso machine, lock in the portafilter and try to lift the entire machine up by hand. It may be a little difficult, but you will be able to do it. Now, unlock the portafilter and hold it in
your hand. You'll notice that it is fairly light in your hand.

Now, if you can go to a proper coffee equipment shop and ask to see a Rancilio Silvia. (Almost everyone sells them.) Try doing the same things with a Rancilio Silvia. You'll notice how much heavier the machine and
portafilter are right off the bat. There's a very good reason for this. It's because that machine is in a whole other league of quality. One member on this board owned his Rancilio Silvia for 20 years! They're built to last!

So, without making compromises in the quality of your espresso, that's what I believe is pretty much an absolute minimum to making your own espresso which is better than anything you can get out of a Nespresso,
a Starbucks or any coffee shop you can think of.

taomacuzuh Said:

specs of that grinder it looks pretty good and don't see how that grinder is wrong.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, The old saying goes, "You get what you pay for."

The problem with the grinder you suggested is that it has a limited number of grind settings. 40 settings is not enough for an espresso capable grinder. Ideally, you want an infinitely adjustable grinder or one
with more than 100 steps. A Baratza Precisio or an Ascaso grinder is only about an extra $50 or so.  

I don't see the point to wasting your money on a grinder which you won't be able to use with an unpressurized portafilter, when the cost difference is so small to begin with.

taomacuzuh Said:

And for that price of only the grinder I can already get Nespresso machine with a bunch of free capsules with it.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, that's not really the point, like I was emphasizing earlier. If you want quality, you have to pay for it. I mean, if this is what you are set upon, fine, run with it. However, you are on a coffee lovers forum and if you
really truly want to bring out the flavors in the coffee and get a great tasting drink, far beyond anything a Nespresso can make, you have to spend money.

taomacuzuh Said:

thought that the Nespresso was tasting better, others just commented that the Gaggia is ONLY better when you are a true barista and willing to fiddle endlessly to make it perfect.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, the Nespresso has pretty much zero learning curve. You put in a capsule, push a button and coffee comes out. If that's good enough for you, great. Nobody said you needed a doctorate in rocket science
to operate a Gaggia Classic, but there is a learning curve to using it properly, especially if you use unpressurized portafilters. You don't have to "Fiddle" with anything. All that you do is grind the coffee to the correct
fineness, tamp it down with a tamper and brew your shot. Once you learn what a fast shot and a slow shot tastes like, you learn quickly what dose and grind you should be using to get a great tasting shot.

Think of it this way. A Nespresso is like driving a car with an automatic transmission. You put the car into "D" and forget about it. A machine with an unpressurized portafilter is like driving a car with a manual
transmission. You have to learn how to let out the clutch properly, how to do hill starts, what gear to be in at which speed and how to safely upshift and downshift. Is there a risk of crashing with a manual
transmission car? Absolutely! Can you stall a manual transmissioned car? Yes, if you don't know what you are doing. However, with enough skill and experience, it becomes second nature and becomes safer
than an automatic and is also much more enjoyable to drive! The rewards completely eclipse the extra work required.

Keep in mind that you have a forum here full of lots of people with a lot of expertise, so it's not like you'll be left out high and dry if you are stuck and can't pull a decent shot. However, if you want to buy a car
with an automatic transmission, nobody is stopping you!

taomacuzuh Said:

So basicly what they mean Gaggia Cl;assic Piston machine can be better, but in real life in average joe's kitchen it's probably worse then a Nespresso.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Actually, the Gaggia Classic is a pump machine, not a piston machine.

With fresh beans, proper grind and dose and a knowledgeable operator, A Gaggia Classic with an unpressurized portafilter and a decent grinder will ALWAYS make better coffee than a Nespresso!
With stale beans, improper grind and dose and an ignorant operator, A Nespresso will always make a better coffee than even the most expensive machines and grinders.

When I started out with my Silvia, I spent about an hour messing with the machine and the grinder to get the pull just right. I made a lot of sink shots because I had no idea how to dial in the grinder.
Once I learned where the settings needed to be and got a good idea of what I should dose, I was making some of the best coffee I've ever tasted with that machine!

Now, I'm sure an experienced barista would have been able to walk right up to my Silvia and Rocky and get a great shot in about 10 minutes. It was a learning process for me, but it wasn't that hard.
I feel that now I could walk up to anyones Silvia and start pulling great shots just as an experienced Barista would.

taomacuzuh Said:

I was just hoping to find something else but I guess I was on the right track after all to buy Nespresso.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, it all depends what you are looking for. You sounded like you wanted something more than what you could get out of a Nespresso. However, if the cost of buying a better quality machine and grinder
is putting you off, just think of the results you'd get from it. I'm quite proud to say that I know I can make better shots than a lot of the coffee shops here in town. I started out with a used Rancilio Silvia and
a Rancilio Rocky I bought from someone used for $600, used that for a few months. A lot of people would be content with that and I was for a while, but I eventually found I wanted even more!! Now, I'm
content with what I have now for the most part.

taomacuzuh Said:

It is probabaly not the machines fault either just either the person operating it is an idiot or they buy crappy bean.

Posted July 19, 2013 link

Well, I wouldn't say the person operating it is an idiot so much is that they're inexperienced and not knowledgeable. I've seen a few professional baristas do things which have surprised me. When I
admonish them over it, they look at me like I've killed their cat. I've rarely done this for fear that I'll come across as a snob, but once they learn the things necessary to make a great cup of coffee,
then beautiful things end up in the cup.

Like I said earlier, if you want to stick with Nespresso because you just want to make coffee and budget is a severe restriction, that's fine. However, if you want to take it that extra step and try something
new, which is outside of your comfort zone, only to reap the rewards of that work? Well, when you are ready we'll be waiting for you. It was a journey for all of us.

Just so that you know, I started out my journey with my Mom's old Philips coffee maker, bought a few single-cup coffee makers over the years, eventually switched over to K-Cups, then made the leap over
to a blade grinder and a Bialetti Moka Pot. After I got tired of cleaning it, I made another leap to a Rancilio machine/grinder pair. Then I wanted more and got what I have now. I'm quite passionate about
my coffee, as you can probably tell. The equipment I own now isn't cheap, but it's worth every single penny to me and it'll last me for a decade or longer if I look after it.

Good luck!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 413
Location: Baltimore, USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Olympia Maxima,...
Grinder: Compak K-10 WBC, Gaggia MDF
Drip: Hario V60
Roaster: Nondescript popper
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 2:26am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

Somehow a long term storage for coffee beans and or espresso grind as to be added into the mix to.  Because I live alone and don't want to buy beans and thrown 70% away after 2 weks.

Posted July 16, 2013 link

I don't think this issue was addressed.  Freezers are an American thing.  Electricity is expensive in Europe and I do not see so many freezers.  Am I correct?  If I were you, I would get one or two used hot-air popcorn poppers ($7-25) and learn to roast your own beans from green beans.  Green beans keep for months without refrigeration of any sort.  You will use less electricity than keeping roasted beans frozen and running a freezer 24/7.  I lived this way for a while and I learned to roast beans that were delicious because they were fresh, fresh.  Buy a Hario mini hand grinder, or a similar appliance for $40 or so.  This will make adequate quality and adjustable fine grinds for espresso.

Read up on the types of air poppers that work and that do not and read reviews of the different hand grinders before you buy.  All that information is here on Coffeegeek and on Home-barista.  Then you could decide on what machine you wanted to use with the good amount of your budget that is left.

I have used a Mypressi hand-held gas powered espresso machine (yes, it is a machine) for two years since I relocate frequently and cannot lug or plumb a boiler machine.  You can get a Mypressi for $140-160 and it makes espresso indistinguishable from most boiler machines.  The only problem is that now you still need to buy a milk steamer/frother.

Whatever boiler machine you buy, make sure you can have it serviced in the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany or someplace near, or it will someday become a useless piece of metal that will get you nothing more than a few Euros in Ebay.

Buckley
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 2:30am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Thanks for your reply.  It is not that hard to make an espresso better then the local cafe/restaurant/bar in your town because i manage that already weith my nespresso machine.

But I must admit that not all nespresso cus are a winner. But some taste really good.  Cappuccino is my favourite coffee drink and I have been in Italy drinking everyday one or 2 cappuccino in coffee places.  And all of them where real good (except at the hotel at buffet breakfast that was pretty bad).

So I can honestly say that a Nespresso with a Arpeggio or Ristretto cup will make a very very very good cappuccino up to par to what I had in Italy if i talk about taste.

If you going to look really snobby like how the texture of the cofee crema and milk foam are then there is probably all kinds of things wrong with the Nespresso, but so is a lot  of the coffee places that you buy coffee on the street from.  A lot of so called barista's don't knowwhat they are doing and I know this because if my Nespresso machine at home makes a more tasty coffee then they can make then there is something wrong there.

So for me Nespresso it will be.
I have owned a Bialetti Mokla express pot too for on the stove and I liked that just as much as my Nespresso but it had less consistant results because a pinch too much coffe grind in there or a splash more water (or less) already changed the taste.

For me big selling point is Nespresso cups I can use a long time without going bad (although people say it can, but it is always snobs owning the machine that say that and never tried it themselves).  I have owned nespresso and I can say day 1 or day 170 the taste is the same.

I read an inresting review about the Nespresso cups by the way on another forum.
Intresting to read since I agree with most of the results.  And is interesting to read in general for everybody that likes coffee.
The guy owned a lot of equipment but ended up using Nespresso.  He is not saying itis better but sufficient for his needs.

It is intresting to read how he rates the cups from super quality to Super bad and that is the same as with any other machine i guess, buy the wrong blend and you are not happy.

Oke here is the link:
Click Here (www.singleservecoffeeforums.com)


.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 4:29am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

I guess what is perplexing me now is that if you are so sure that you want another Nespresso machine, why did you make this post to begin with?
What were you hoping for?

One of the reasons why I avoided Nespresso when I switched from K-Cups was due to the cost of the coffee and the volume I drink.
Here's a link: Source - Click here

When you work out the cost of the coffee, it works out to $51/lb, or about $112.44 per kilogram.

Purchasing your beans green is very cost effective if you plan on roasting, but typically roasted beans are about $16/lb or $35.27 per kilogram. (At
least, where I live anyway, that's a typical cost.)

Considering that the average Nespresso capsule contains 5 grams of coffee, that works out to $0.56 per cup at that rate.

A typical single shot of espresso usually has 7 grams of coffee, so comparing apples to apples, it works out to $0.25 per cup, or about half as much,
brewing by "conventional" espresso machine methods.

Is it worth it to pay nearly double per cup for the convenience of a nespresso device? Well, that's your call.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 7:44am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Well i was hoping for better machine but did not think about the grinder.  Because the shops that sell the beans they can also grind the beans for you.  
But now i read that is apparently not a good idea since i read that you have to use it withing 15 minutes after grinding.  But you know what I believe there must be some storage solution for this.  I mean Nespresso cups can maintain the same taste for months so why can nobody else do this?

If you read my opening post it should not be a surprise that i go with nespresso since i considered this from the beginning on.  Just wanted to known what else is out there.  I live alone and am not a big coffee drinker.  Maybe 1 cup a day two at the very most, but it can happen that i don't drink it for 5 days in a row.

And also you got your figures from nespresso cups all wrong.  It is not 5 gram.
Here is some figures that i got from someone else.

Napoli - 7.2-7.3 g.
Trieste - 7.0-7.1 g.
Arpeggio - 6.5 g.
Dhjana - 7.2 g.
Kona - 7.5 g. (!)

He measured this with precision scale.  I believe this guy since he does not talk nonsense about anything else that i read from him about nespresso cups.
Thats all the figures he gave, i dont have any other numbers, so i don't say none of the cups are 5 gram but most of them have more and some are close to or above 7 grams.

But who cares about the grams if it is 1 gram and it taste good i would buy it.

I stillcould buy a different machine but I need solution for storing coffee grind.  And Nespresso has this solution.

Also there are now companies that sell empty capsules so you can fill it up with your own coffee grind.
I cannot really say if that would be a good thing or not but leaves option open to experiment with different coffees even if you have a Nespresso machine.

I am still not 100% on the nespresso side but how hard can it be to store some coffee grind in a light and oxygene free environment.
Why cant they spent money on research for that instead of pretending we are clever so we just pretend we put people on the moon just to p;iss of the russians.
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 8:07am
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Well i was hoping for better machine but did not think about the grinder.  Because the shops that sell the beans they can also grind the beans for you.  
But now i read that is apparently not a good idea since i read that you have to use it withing 15 minutes after grinding.  But you know what I believe there must be some storage solution for this.  I mean Nespresso cups can maintain the same taste for months so why can nobody else do this?

If you read my opening post it should not be a surprise that i go with Nespresso since i considered this from the beginning on.  Just wanted to known what else is out there.  I live alone and am not a big coffee drinker.  Maybe 1 cup a day two at the very most, but it can happen that i don't drink it for 5 days in a row.

And also you got your figures from Nespresso cups all wrong.  It is not 5 gram.
Here is some figures that i got from someone else.

Napoli - 7.2-7.3 g.
Trieste - 7.0-7.1 g.
Arpeggio - 6.5 g.
Dhjana - 7.2 g.
Kona - 7.5 g. (!)

He measured this with precision scale.  I believe this guy since he does not talk nonsense about anything else that i read from him about Nespresso cups.
Thats all the figures he gave, i don't have any other numbers, so i don't say none of the cups are 5 gram but most of them have more and some are close to or above 7 grams.

But who cares about the grams if it is 1 gram and it taste good i would buy it.

Also your figures about a nespresso machine being more expensive.  It is actually not when you are a single man that does n ot drink too much cofee it actually is cheaper (especially when you are going to talk about 500 euro of equipment vs 200 euro nespresso and they give you 80 euro free cups)
I still could buy a different machine but I need solution for storing coffee grind.  And Nespresso has this solution.  I am not saying nespresso is cheap but it is not more expensive then going with hundreds of doallrs worth on other equipment.  Yes the coffee may be cheaper but the machines are way more expensive.
It is not cheaper at all for me to go with grinder and espresso machine, for me nespresso is cheaper.  For someone else it may not be like that.  But for me Nespresso is cheaper then grinder and espresso machine.

Also there are now companies that sell empty capsules so you can fill it up with your own coffee grind.
I cannot really say if that would be a good thing or not but leaves option open to experiment with different coffees even if you have a Nespresso machine.

I am still not 100% on the nespresso side but how hard can it be to store some coffee grind in a light and oxygene free environment.
Why cant they spent money on research for that instead of pretending we are clever so we just pretend we put people on the moon just to piss of the Russians.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 646
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 3:46pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

taomacuzuh Said:

Well i was hoping for better machine but did not think about the grinder.  Because the shops that sell the beans they can also grind the beans for you.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

I get asked this all the time when I buy beans from a coffee shop. Pre-grinding the grounds makes sense if you primarily just drink drip coffee. I always loved opening a vacuum
sealed can of Folgers coffee for the first time, but like anything, the grounds oxidize quickly and lose a lot of their flavor quickly. Coffees like Illy come packed in Nitrogen.
Source - Click here ..
However the problem is that this coffee "dies" quickly, usually within about 24 hours after the coffee is opened and usually by the second day, you can't brew a decent cup of
coffee from it with an unpressurized portafilter. There are a lot of questions regarding this on the forum, it just doesn't work unless you brew with a pressurized portafilter.

After doing a little bit of research, I found out that Nespresso vacuum packs their cups, leading to better longevity of the coffee. That's probably how they stop the grounds from
going stale. That also probably lends to extending their lifespan by months.

taomacuzuh Said:

But you know what I believe there must be some storage solution for this.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Well, I think there would be two ways of doing this. Either you need a machine which can vacuum pack the grounds in measured portions, or can pressurize the container with
Nitrogen. Of course, you can't just keep re-vacuuming the same container over and over again because the grounds will die quickly.

Before I knew any better, I stored coffee grounds in a clip top container in the cupboard. After about a month, the grounds turned into toxic waste and the coffee was barely
drinkable. It tasted like gas station coffee basically. Any coffee snob on here probably would have spat up the coffee.

taomacuzuh Said:

I mean Nespresso cups can maintain the same taste for months so why can nobody else do this?

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Well, Lavazza does. Lavazza is a direct competitor to Nespresso, but nobody has heard of them here in Canada because they don't get their products put into Canadian
department stores. The Lavazza a modo Mio and the Keurig Rivo both use Lavazza cups. Maybe these are the alternatives you are looking for? I have no idea what the quality
of these machines are like, nor do I know if you can get those machines in your country.

taomacuzuh Said:

And also you got your figures from Nespresso cups all wrong.  It is not 5 gram.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

OK, I stand corrected, but that's a good piece of information. 7 grams is a typical single espresso shot. Most people I've spoken to on this forum always make double shots.

taomacuzuh Said:

It is actually not when you are a single man that does n ot drink too much cofee it actually is cheaper

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Well, I thought about this and in some cases, you are right. Since you do seldomly drink coffee, I can see where there is a convenience and cost benefit to this. However, if you
have company over and are making large amounts of cups, that logic goes right out the window. :-) In all honesty, I don't want to debate about cost per cup, that's a bit off-topic.
I'm just saying that is the reason why I didn't go with Nespresso, it wasn't right for me and may not be right for someone else reading this thread who is looking for a machine.

taomacuzuh Said:

(especially when you are going to talk about 500 euro of equipment vs 200 euro nespresso and they give you 80 euro free cups)

Posted July 20, 2013 link

When I worked out the cost difference between loose coffee as opposed to cupped coffee, the cost savings worked out to $0.31 per shot. When you take into account the
difference in equipment prices here, that works out to 967 cups of coffee before the machine pays for itself. That's one cup of coffee every day for about 2 years, 8 months.
For a single guy who seldomly drinks coffee? It doesn't make any sense. For a coffee drinker like me who drinks 1-2 doubles a day? Makes perfect sense.

taomacuzuh Said:

(I still could buy a different machine but I need solution for storing coffee grind.

Posted July 20, 2013 link

Well, there are solutions for storing unground coffee. For example, you could do what some members on this forum do and single dose the grinder.

For example, you could buy 100 small ziploc bags, measure in about 10 grams of coffee into each bag, seal it and freeze it. Then take out only what you need, dump in the
dose you want and grind it. Pain in the rear? Absolutely. However, in saying that, 1 kilogram of coffee lasts me about a month, so in your situation you could stretch out a
Kilogram of coffee to over 3-4 months doing this.

Of course, in your situation, it just sounds like cups are much more convenient and that I seriously doubt you'd want to spend an hour measuring out beans on a scale and bagging them.
My guess is, that's only for the geeks who do that. :)

Sometimes it is easy to look at the costs and get fixated on them. It's all about picking the right tools and solutions for the right job. Heck, I think I'm probably the only person
in the neighborhood here who has a plumbed in espresso machine. Overkill? Damn straight, but it suits my needs just fine. :-) For you? It would be very inappropriate!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 652
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 4:12pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Let me try and put things in a different perspective. Those of us who are regulars in this forum do this for the love of the craft. Being a home barista is something that takes time, patience, and the proper equipment. Then end result is an artisnal cup of cafe-wuality coffee, made to order by your own hand whenever you wish for a nominal cost. Its not convenient and its not clean. Its hard work and a lot of shots poured down the drain when you're learning.

This isn't snobbery so much as artistic pride. This is a creative outlet and a hobby in itself for many of us. Because we have tasted the results of our hard work, we're passionate to pass it on to others. But if you just need something quick and convenient and cheap, the pod machine will probably do it for you. If you're interested in learning how to make real espresso (because whipped air does not a crema make) then stick around and save your Euros :)
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taomacuzuh
Senior Member


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 16
Location: China or Nethetlands
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Sat Jul 20, 2013, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: Looking for advice on new machine.
 

Lavazza has a cup system too i heard of this one.  But it is not so popular.  There is also a third system called Illy.  Illy has pods too.
Only Illy pods are more expensive and the machines too and they only have 4 flavours.

I hear some people say that Illy pod system is better then nespresso.  But I cannot really taste it as with nespresso there is many shops where you can try the Nespresso coffee before you buy the machine (every shop that sells nespresso machines usually has some stash of cups in the back for customers to taste the coffee, they cannot sell it though).  Sometimes you get 10 for free when you buy the machine or something.

I wonder if Illy would be any good.  Heard some good things about it.   But Again,  Nespresso  Arpeggio cups makes one of the best cappuccinos I have ever tasted in my whole life.  I will do some research on storing coffee grind.  I am actually surprised that people freeze the beans or ground since I thought moisture is the enemy.
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