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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > ECM Giotto:...  
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G2G2
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Joined: 3 Aug 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Malaysia
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Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 5:42am
Subject: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

Okay, maybe she didn't do anything to it.... maybe she did.

Divorced the ex, gave her everything big and important (to her) but stored the Giotto at the house until I was a bit more stable.

Now, years later I finally get the last of my stuff.  Giotto is a mess.  Metal is corroded, milk caked onto the steam wand but the strangest thing is that the metal case is now giving me shocks.

Anyone know how to check the wiring in the apartment to tell if it's grounded properly?  I do have a VOM.

Anyone familiar with how the Giotto should be wired?

Thanks for any hints.
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calblacksmith
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Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 9:36am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

You say it was in storage for a long time, my thoughts run to perhaps a rodent got inside and chewed on things and has moved things in to make a comfey home. Start by taking the top and sides off and give a good look around inside if all looks well, I would think that a real possiblilty is that the boiler was run dry and the heater has partially melted and is causing electricty to get where is should not. This is not usually a problem with a machine that is plumbed in or that has an autofill circuit and a good size internal tank but if it was in as bad of shape that you say it was, then it is possible that it ran dry due to no water in the tank. Was it a willful thing or an accident? IDK but you need to deal from here.

 
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OttoMatic
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Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 4:25pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

You asked about how to check if your electrical is wired correctly.   It's a long shot, but I've seen it happen before -- shocks through metal on appliances -- due to incorrect wiring.  You can get an outlet tester like this at your local hardware/home improvement store:
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PeterWWbeagle
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Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 8:28pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

your profile says you are in Malaysia.  That is the land of corrosion, high humidity and heat.  I am guessing you left it for years,without proper draining.  now, years later the entire insides could be corroded, or as Wayne suggests,   home to mice or worse.  do not turn it on until you take case off and clean every single electrical connection and check every wire

if the case is shocking you, it's the machine not your apartment. perhaps your apt is not properly grounded but that is just to protect you if the machine is dangerous.  the machine is dangerous.   current is leaking into the case from a hot wire.  it be as simple as the insulation on your wiring harness or a terminal disintegrating. old cracked insulation or rodent chewed insulation could easily leak enough voltage into any nearby metal frame.  or corrosion is conducting current from any fifty different hot terminals to the case.  

my guess is that your wife is not to blame and that the machine needs to be overhauled by at least a competent electrician or your first post here could be your last.
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IMAWriter
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Posted Sat Aug 3, 2013, 9:21pm
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

PeterWWbeagle Said:

....... and that the machine needs to be overhauled by at least a competent electrician or your first post here could be your last.

Posted August 3, 2013 link

That is about as pungent (and cogent) and pointed a piece of advice as I've seen here in maybe forever.
Well said. (I couldn't help but giggle, bad form, I know.)

 
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G2G2
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Joined: 3 Aug 2013
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Location: Malaysia
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Aug 4, 2013, 4:57am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

Thanks to all good people here who replied and so very quickly too.

I pulled the top off.  Everything looked peachy-keen.

Boiler:  full of water it turned out.

Competent Electrician:  This is Malaysia.  What is that?

I've call every reputable company in this country and no one wants to touch this machine.  I'm on my own.
Luckily I do have a background in electronics but from 30 years ago.  
My best guess is that this place is wired differently.  So, cleaned off the grunge, filled the reservoir and got water moving through the tubes.  Pressured up just fine.  What the heck, donned rubber gloves and made a couple of cups of cappuccino and ....  not bad for a first pass.  Needs more cleaning but for now, this is how it will have to be.

Thanks again folks and if you don't hear from me, well, you know what happened.
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MDiddy
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Posted Sun Aug 4, 2013, 6:46am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

G2G2 Said:

Thanks again folks and if you don't hear from me, well, you know what happened.

Posted August 4, 2013 link

This made me LOL.  :)
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frcn
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frcn
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Posted Sun Aug 4, 2013, 7:16am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

It was a shocking way to end a current thread. The continuity of the thread was lacking, but it had good flow, and but there was no resistance to adding feedback.

 
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PeterWWbeagle
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Posted Sun Aug 4, 2013, 7:40am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

Gary
it's sounding better, glad Mickey and Minnie are not living inside the machine.  

your background will help.  some piece of insulation is compromised and current is being conducted to the case.  with the machine OFF, I would feel each inch of wire and around each terminal.  some thing is leaking current.  make sure no wire insulation is touching any piece of the case.  the fact that it has only shocked you and you are not dead means a few volts are bleeding over.  I suspect a tiny break in wire insulation near a piece of metal frame.  or there is something conducting a few volts from one of the power terminals, such as the pump, to its grounded metal,casing.  perhaps the internal insulation on the pump, or p-stat or another component has failed.  

if you are feeling lucky, you could turn on the unit, and with rubber gloves and rubber shoes, then disconnect each of the components and measure current leakage each time.  perhaps that will help you isolate the part part.

Malaysia has 230 grounded 50 htz, similar to the UK plug.  the power cord should/ must be grounded.  the fact that you are getting shocked means that you are conducting the stray voltage to earth and not the ground wire .  my guess is that your outlet is not grounded properly or maybe the entire apartment.  but that is your second problem, the leaking current in the ecm is number one.

you can buy a GFCI power cord extension.  I am afraid that if you use it with the machine as it is, the GFCI will simply trip off.  good protection but not a fix.

how much voltage is leaking to the case?
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PeterWWbeagle
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Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 70
Location: Denver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Anita,CMA...
Grinder: Super Jolly, Mini, Macap
Vac Pot: Aeropress
Posted Sun Aug 4, 2013, 7:49am
Subject: Re: ECM Giotto: Sabotaged by ex and now gives shocks.
 

frcn Said:

It was a shocking way to end a current thread. The continuity of the thread was lacking, but it had good flow, and but there was no resistance to adding feedback.

Posted August 4, 2013 link

but, luckily, most purveyors of knowledge here were well grounded. those that were not, choose to remain insulated
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