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Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Used Gaggia...  
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osteenjames
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Location: St Paul Minnesota
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 6:11am
Subject: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

Hello I got a Gaggia with PID so I could monitor Temps. I just recently bought the used Gaggia and when I pluged in after 5 minutes temp on PID read 300 plus. So, I reset PID to 200 degrees manually. I turned off machine to cool before turning back on to see if temp adjust to 200 degrees.
I reset PID to 200,but when machine is warming up it goes way past 200 still?
Lots of strong steam but no water? I hit the brew button a couple of times and usual sounds from machine but no water through brew head.
No water? ****I took two screws out of top machine and inside looks immaculately clean. I can see clear water tubes and they are not kinked but no water when I hit brew just whoosh flash steam.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 8:45am
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

It sounds to me like the system is stuck in steam mode and more like it was misswired when the PID was installed. Did you do the PID or did you buy the machine used with it installed?

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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osteenjames
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Location: St Paul Minnesota
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 9:47am
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

I bought machine on ebay and PID was installed already.
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osteenjames
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Location: St Paul Minnesota
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 11:58am
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

I figured it out. I did take apart group head/shower and clean. Shower had 1/3 of holes clogged.
Evidently either boiler was empty or steam switch was stuck on. Utube said to prime pump and fill boiler 1. open steam knob on side of machine 2. turn on switch on 3. turn steam switch on 4. turn on brew switch, then water will start coming out of steam wand and fill up a cup and turn everything off in reverse order.  I did this and now PID is working fine.

What I noticed: 1. when machine on and warming up PID is now bouncing between 202 and 197 which is good for the brew temp.
  1. When I hit steam though temp raises up to 300 plus, light goes out I steam milk.
  2. I turn steam button off and temp starts to fall slowly so I do a water purge to speed things up. I will have to practice the length of time to get temp down to 202 as my steam milk is cooling ahhh!.

This machine does look new inside. Maybe the owner put new empty boiler in it?

If I sell this machine I will be sure to explain the above for the newbie such as myself.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 1:43pm
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

What PID?

Brew only or brew and steam?  I am guessing brew only, as follows.

I have not heard of a stuck steam switch on Gaggia, though it probably could happen.  If so, I am not sure how you un-stuck it.  If brew and steam, perhaps an incorrect setting or changed wiring.  My guess on what was/is going on, if no PID steam function, is that the boiler was not near full but had enough water to make some steam.  If only a little water in the boiler the temperature may raise more rapidly than the PID has "learned," allowing for a large overshoot.  The water is also a buffer and heatsink to the boiler.

You set the temperature down to 200F.  What was it set at?  If no built in, or set, offset the normal boiler temperature set will be around 212F to 225F to get about 200F at the puck.  200F boiler will be well under that at the puck.

The fact that the steam button raises the temperature to 300F+ and off light make me think that PID is not controlling the steam function.

Does the steam wand drip while heating up and brewing?  It is so common that it is almost normal.  If much, it may help contribute to losing full boiler.  

I have a year and a half old machine used daily and it looks new inside, doubt a new boiler, just no leaks inside.  If you had a new boiler the seller would most likely have said.

If you steam, leave the wand open and turn off the steam switch and it will cool fairly quickly.  I like to do this with a wet towel or paper towel around the tip and it helps to clean.  More rapid cooling is to leave the wand open and turn on the pump with steam switch off.  You get rapid fill with cold water and when the boiler is full water will come out of the wand and the heavily out of the group.  Close the wand and then turn off the pump leaving the boiler full.

On idle the PID should not fluctuate more than 1F.  It may over and undershoot initially, with a little fluctuation, while stabilizing but should settle to 1F.  If you start from cold your PID temperature should be stable in about 5 minutes.  This only means that the PID sensor is controlling its location well.  The rest of the boiler, water and machine will still be 15 - 20 minutes.

"If you sell this machine," or when you sell :)  I saw your Oscar thread.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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osteenjames
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Location: St Paul Minnesota
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 2:32pm
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

Per your advice I adjusted PID to SV 212 and it is maintaining within one degree as you said. My Baratza Vario grinder comes this week and I'll be experimenting with both my Gaggia with PID and Oscar Simonell. I may sell both as a package deal if I decide to get Breville dual boiler BES900; this week will tell. Oh the Gaggia with PID came with a CD said Auber Instrument inc PID kit KIT-GGS if I sell that goes too.
***The PID is for brew and steam CD said something about steam, recovery time, adjustments, etc.
PID temp changes when I use steam also.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,981
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sun Sep 1, 2013, 2:49pm
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

The PID set at 212F will give you a stable machine in about 15+ minutes from start and will re-stablize in about 4 - 5 minutes after brew.  Prior to brew use the steam switch for about 3 - 4 seconds or heat and then similar for rest and then hit brew.  Cold water is instant boiler cooling even before the PID recognizes and shows, and the preheat to the boiler will help blunt this.  If you do that, the PID will show about 220F - 224F when you hit the brew switch.  That is the boiler temperature at the PID sensor, not water temperature.  Water at the puck will be about 200F.  

You may need PID SV of 214 or 215F, and the "steam switch."

Kit GGS has steam.  What is the steam temperature setting?  Probably alarm AH and AL?  "PID temp changes when I steam" is probably just showing the actual temperature, not the sets.

If you want to understand the Gaggia and PID controller, recovery, stability, then read about the first 15 pages below.  Or you can use it to help fall asleep.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/571792

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,011
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 2, 2013, 9:25am
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

If you have never made espresso and you are still learning shot basics, I would think you need at LEAST one week on each machine only to just to start to get the hang of that machine if you are only making 2-3 espressos a day.  It would be like a person that doesn't know how to drive trying to make a good informed choice on a car.  Espresso quality is very much based on the skill of the driver. (barista)  I know there are lots of cars that look good on paper that after I drove them I was no longer interested in. (things like viability and handling that driving experience has taught me are more important)  

I did a lot of research before I bought any machine because I could not afford to buy, try and sell like you are doing.   I believe for the money a good used Oscar is a great starter machine.  Most bang for the buck.  What I have learned in well over a year on Oscar and reading here tells me I made a good choice that I don't regret my purchase. Oscar's power (rugged electronics and huge boiler) has made me not want an upgrade till I can spring for a 3K+ machine. Now (almost year 2 of Oscar) l I am 100% sure I would never pick an single boiler (gaggia classic) over the Oscar.  So, I would tell you to keep the Oscar and skip the Breville.  After you outgrow your Oscar then you can look at the high $ machines and know what you want and what $ amount espresso is worth to you.

If you sell this machine," or when you sell :)  I saw your Oscar thread.

 D4F agrees with me.

Now, if you have insane money to toss around- then buy one of everything, use it for a week, write up reviews on them post here, sell them to noobies looking for good deals.  I am good with that too, in fact start with an L1.  I want an L1.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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osteenjames
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Location: St Paul Minnesota
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Sep 2, 2013, 10:18am
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

Without my Baratza vario grinder I have used some espresso that is not ground fine enough and the Oscar makes better shots than the Gaggia with PID on it. I get my grinder on Wednesday and then have a week to experiment...mwaahaahhaa! More than likely I will keep oscar and sell Gaggia with PID-KIT GGS (Steam and Brew temp). I paid 400.00 for the Gaggia with PID. I dont think I can sell anything on this forum until I have 3 months member status. How do you sell on this forum? I saw buy/sell area on forum but how does one obtain cash for item?

Can you recommend good espresso bean and where to get?
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,011
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 2, 2013, 1:01pm
Subject: Re: Used Gaggia Classic with PID problems and no water coming out.
 

Do yourself a favor and get at least 2 pounds of coffee from the same batch (I would get 5lbs) because with the testing, sink shots and dialing in if you only get a single pound (or worse yet 12 oz) by the time you get it dialed in you have to get another pound that will take dialing in again.....
(believe me that sucks, when you start it is easy to burn a lot of coffee when you are learning. Later on 12oz will be ok sample amount but don't start there....)



Best deal on the web and most forgiving bean.
Redbird espresso (I like blue jaguar blend but the house redbird blend is nice too)
If you order now you will have the coffee about the day your grinder comes in.

http://www.redbirdcoffee.com/products/red-bird-espresso

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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