Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 2:32pm Subject: Proper grind and dose with regards to sight and weight?????
I am in a quandary. I am trying to set up my Compak k3 Touch with the correct grind and dose. I have been watching a lot of youtube videos and it seems like a lot of people over dose. It seems to be the consensus that you should dose from 7-9grams for a single and 14-18g for a double. With that being written, according to youtube, when filling their portafilters with grounds most people fill so that there is a mound in the middle. When i do this and weigh my single shot it comes out to about 11-12grams. When I fill it to 7 grams it seems like there is not nearly enough grind in the basket. After I tamp, with 7 -9 grams, it is well below the line in the portafilter. Here are my questions...
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3,023 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 2:53pm Subject: Re: Proper grind and dose with regards to sight and weight?????
I go by weight. I do 18.5 grams in an 18g VST basket of redbird. You should have a scale that does .01 grams if you don't already.
If you over fill the basket the coffee doesn't have room to expand with water. Espressomyespresso has a good article to tell you how to do the coin test to see if you are over filling. In fact I reread his articles often.
The rest is taste, roasters suggestions and machine. I hear they recommend only 16g in the lever machine I covet. Some roasters want you to do 22gs of their coffee.
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.
MJW Senior Member Joined: 25 Jul 2012 Posts: 179 Location: Silicon Valley Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 4:23pm Subject: Re: Proper grind and dose with regards to sight and weight?????
I go by weight too. Different machines seem to prefer different doses. It may depend on the basket volume or shape, or the incursion of the showerhead, or who knows what. Regardless, if someone pulls a normale using 14 grams of coffee, that doesn't necessarily mean you should use the same amount of coffee. Or, if someone makes a mound "this" high, it doesn't mean you should too.
So as Coffeenoobie indicates, when you're starting out there may be no answer. You could ask the mfr and see what dose the designers intended. But they fully expect you to experiment.
Another thing which it seems you're already aware of, is many people on youtube are trying to pull sweet crema-maximizing ristrettos, and to do that they will dose higher than normal.
Posted Mon Sep 9, 2013, 6:20pm Subject: Re: Proper grind and dose with regards to sight and weight?????
Agreed. Let the beans/blends dictate your dose weight. Adjust the grind accordingly to get the shot to pull balanced in the cup (flavor balanced). To illustrate, I pull 18g doses of Red Bird for an ~30sec normale, but if I'm using Klatch WBC, I prefer a 20g ristretto. I've been using Chromatic Coffee Gamut Espresso for a couple of months now (intermittently). The roaster told me he starts a fresh batch pulling 18g doubles, but increases the dose slightly as the beans age. He also told me his target weight in the cup, but I don't recall it. I'm pretty sure he keeps that same target for all doses through the aging process.
Helen gave you great advice to look at the reference article on www.espressomyespresso.com. It's #12, under the how to section, called Easy Guide to Better Espresso at Home. Another quick guide , which you may not be ready for yet, but should at least look at is Jim Schulman's guide on how to adjust dose and grind for flavor. It's in espresso 101 on home-barista.com, and you can find it other places too.
. Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
Worldman Senior Member Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,820 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Expobar Office Control Grinder: Cimbali 6/S
Posted Tue Sep 10, 2013, 2:42am Subject: Re: Proper grind and dose with regards to sight and weight?????
ahhhh...(I believe) we all consider these same issues...and try various "standards" and just keep adjusting as taste dictates.
I use a scale and weigh the unground beans using 17.0 grams for both of my blends for doubles. I then grind and put the "entire" contents (1) of the grinder into a double basket. (This becomes 22 grams for a triple and I can't remember the last time I pulled a single.)
My current goal is 2 oz. in 22" though the 22" goal was changed some months ago from its former 30" and 25". More on shot timing timing later...
(1) = I know, I know...I am not emptying the entire contents of the grinder even though I pull the dosing lever 15 or 20 times. There is always some grinds left behind. But I pull so many shots that I don't worry about these "stale" grinds left as (I feel) they are being used in the next shot(s) which are usually pulled in quick sucession...somtimes only minutes after the previous shots.
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