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4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > 4 hole tip on...  
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Sep 25, 2013, 5:45pm
Subject: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Ok, someone else posted the other day that they had determined that the plastic tube inside of the no burn steam wand was too long for the 4 hole tip that many of us are installing on our Vetrano 2B.  Tonight, I determined that this was indeed an issue for me as well.... here is what happened:

I decided to do maintenance on my machine tonight. I was going to clean the steam tip, shower screen, and back flush with cleaning tablets... first I started on the steam tip. I usually use a Doctor's brand dental brush pick. They are handy for cleaning the holes because they are small and have a little brush on the end. I started cleaning my tip and I couldn't get the brush in two of the holes. After messing with it for a while I took the tip off and held it up to the plastic protruding from the wand and I realized that the plastic tube was very close to touching the bottom if the tip and the two holes I could not get the brush pick in were the two that were the closest to the bottom of the plastic tube (the plastic tube was cut on an angle).

I simply took a single edge razor blade and cut about 3/32" off of the plastic tube keeping the original taper cut angle that was on the end of the tube. Now I can get my little brush picks in all four holes and I believe this will give me more even and better flow of steam through all four holes.  An easy fix...... but not sure it will make my micro foam as good as I want it to be!!
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,224
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Wed Sep 25, 2013, 5:58pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

I, and a couple of other Duetto owners, removed the plastic tube from my steam wand (thereby converting it to a burn me. The improvement in microfoam quality was both drastic and immediate. I bought a rubber sleeve for manipulating the wand from espressoparts.com for less than $4.

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Wed Sep 25, 2013, 6:09pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

emradguy Said:

I, and a couple of other Duetto owners, removed the plastic tube from my steam wand (thereby converting it to a burn me. The improvement in microfoam quality was both drastic and immediate. I bought a rubber sleeve for manipulating the wand from espressoparts.com for less than $4.

Posted September 25, 2013 link

This issue only resides with the 4 hole tip. The original two hole tip is longer and the plastic can't touch the bottom of the tip.

I know a lot of people have reported taking the tube out, but I came from a "burn me" wand before this machine and the thing I like about the no burn wand is that it is much easier to clean up than my old machines wand. My old machine took much longer to steam milk and it cooked the milk onto the outside of the wand making hit harder to clean.. so I like this much better and I am going to try to keep it.
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sharky
Senior Member
sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 190
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Thu Sep 26, 2013, 5:44am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

DeanOK, I have also cut the end of the tube off as it was too long!  I am using the 4 hole tip and the steaming ability of the Vetrano 2B is outstanding!  It is a learning curve and I am slowly getting the microfoam that I desire!  The latte art is getting there . . . but is still a work in progress!  LOL!   I love this machine . . . it is beautiful to look at . . . a joy to use . . . and makes amazing espresso!
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Sep 26, 2013, 6:30am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

sharky Said:

DeanOK, I have also cut the end of the tube off as it was too long!  I am using the 4 hole tip and the steaming ability of the Vetrano 2B is outstanding!  It is a learning curve and I am slowly getting the microfoam that I desire!  The latte art is getting there . . . but is still a work in progress!  LOL!   I love this machine . . . it is beautiful to look at . . . a joy to use . . . and makes amazing espresso!

Posted September 26, 2013 link

I wasn't sure cutting the tube was really going to change the quality of my foam, but when I steamed my milk this morning, I got the best micro foam I have gotten with the 4 hole tip so far... so maybe it did make some difference.

Yes, it is a nice machine. I never remember to turn on the accent lights though. I should remember that when I am showing it to my friends and family.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Thu Sep 26, 2013, 8:20am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Hey Dean, I'm the original "teflon tube cutter" :)

While it did immediately yield an improvement (all four holes now equally steaming) I'm still having trouble getting "perfect latte art" microfoam. Before I cut the tubing I was at 10%. Now I'm closer to 60-70% but while I can get consistent foam throughout the milk, I'm having a bit of trouble getting the super fine bubbles that make pouring art super easy. I know it's because I'm not getting the swirl pattern I want. No matter where I put the steam wand in my pitcher I can't get that good swirl I used to get on my Rancilio (the problem with that machine was wet steam which resulted in poor foam). I'm trying two fixes: I ordered what looks to be the official 4-hole QM tip from Seattle Coffee Gear. It's the same overall size as the 2-hole tip, as opposed to the 4-hole tip we got from CCS which is overall considerably smaller (not the holes, the overall size of the tip). I'm also getting a new pitcher, the Rocket Stainless Steel pitcher. I think my old POS $8 pitcher is also partially to blame because it's also too small for the amount of milk I put in it (12oz pitcher, I'm probably putting close to 8oz). This new pitcher is 16oz.

We'll see if either or both makes a difference. If not, as a last resort, I'll convert to a burn-me. Although like you, I don't want to if I can avoid it. I love being able to hold the wand without worrying about charring my skin.
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sharky
Senior Member
sharky
Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 190
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Compak K3 Touch
Posted Fri Sep 27, 2013, 8:32am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

CarloM,  does a no-burn vs a burn-me arm equate to better micro foam?  I find it only takes about 15 sec with the no-burn arm to steam 8oz milk to 150F.  Would it make a difference using the 2 hole vs the 4 hole tip?  Thanks.
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,947
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Fri Sep 27, 2013, 9:00am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

I can't answer for Carlo, but recently I have changed from a 1 hole, no burn wand to a 4 hole, burn type, the new one steams much faster but I have yet to be able to get foam I am happy with, sort of fine but it still settles to look like the surface of the moon. I am seriously looking for/into a single hole tip.

As to how much difference the arm makes, my personal feeling is not so much, more the tip at the end and the cleaning, it is much harder to clean the arm on my Sylvia than the M32 even though they both are NOT no burn.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Fri Sep 27, 2013, 11:16am
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

sharky Said:

CarloM,  does a no-burn vs a burn-me arm equate to better micro foam?  I find it only takes about 15 sec with the no-burn arm to steam 8oz milk to 150F.  Would it make a difference using the 2 hole vs the 4 hole tip?  Thanks.

Posted September 27, 2013 link

Don't know as I haven't done the burn-me mod yet. From what I've read around here and other coffee sites, some have reported that taking off the no burn teflon tube results in more powerful, drier steam (not sure how it becomes drier, but that's what they say, maybe the teflon has a condensation effect?).

Time and power of steam isn't the issue for me. I can get to 160F in about 20 seconds. It's getting the roll that's a problem. I've tried various tip placements, angles and depths. It's hard for me to get the roll. It was a bit easier on the 2-hole tip to get the roll, but since all the local espresso shops had four hole tips I wanted to try it out, and since CCS was shipping theirs free to their V2B purchasers, I took a chance.

What I think may be the problem is either my pitcher being too small/narrow in some spots, and maybe the four-hole tip isn't optimal for the V2B since it's overall quite a bit shorter/smaller than the 2-hole tip. It's CCS's 4-hole for most of their prosumer machines that can accommodate the threading. SCG sells a Quick Mill specific 4-hole tip (was for the Andreja but they confirmed it will fit on the Vetrano) which looks in their picture to be overall the same size as the 2-hole tip, just with smaller (and more) holes. I also ordered a Rocket pitcher (I think it is a branded Motta pitcher) which has more capacity and a larger bottom portion to allow for more room to achieve the roll. I'm hoping one or both will do the trick. If not I am tempted to try the teflon tube removal, though as DeanOK mentions, I really like not having to worry about burning myself when I touch the wand after steaming.
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CarloM
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2013
Posts: 332
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Vetrano V2B
Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Type A, SJ...
Drip: Toddy
Posted Sat Sep 28, 2013, 1:07pm
Subject: Re: 4 hole tip on V2B... easy resolve issue
 

Just got the 4-hole Quick Mill tip from Seattle Coffee Gear. Here's an image of all three tips, from left to right it's the QM 2-hole that came with the Vetrano, the 4-hole CCS, the 4-hole QM from SCG . Due to the camera angle the two QMs look different in size but they're roughly equal (I don't have calipers to measure down to the millimeter but they look the same to the naked eye). So the two 4-hole tips are not only very different in size (CCS vs QM/SCG), but despite being billed as both 9mm holes, the QM/SCG 4-hole tip look considerably smaller, and the angle of steam ejection is different. We'll see if this makes a difference.

CarloM: photo-1.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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