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Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Bezzera BZ09 vs...  
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mattypV50
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Toronto
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 7:29am
Subject: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

My first post here :)

So I'm in the market for a espresso machine and I think I've narrowed it down to these three. There are obviously a lot of choices out there but I'm really attracted to the build quality and family run business of Bezzera. I'm looking to get a machine that will last a very long time. As well a store closed to Toronto where I live sells them which is really nice. The grinder will be good so that's somewhat outside of the equation.

Our drink preference for the machine will be myself espresso's and americano's (1 per day) (for walking the dog) and my wife will drink Milk based drinks - maybe 2 on the weekend and a few during the week. Not a ton of entertaining so the need for many back to back milk drinks isn't a huge requirement but my wife will drink only milk based drinks.

The only thing about these machines is it is hard to find the a lot written up on them but I have found some on the forums and watched the videos that I can find. I'm wondering if I have the differences of the machines correct.

BZ09 - $899 CDN
Click Here (www.idrinkcoffee.com)

Single Boiler, Non-PID. I've gotten mixed messages if you can dispense water through the wand - which for me might be a deal breaker. My other concerns is I'm not sure of the heat up time for this specific machine, the Unica below there is a video showing it and it's actually quite quick. Would this machine be horrible for milk based drinks or will it be great?

--

Unica - $1099 CDN
Click Here (www.idrinkcoffee.com)

E61 Group which from what I've read is more forgiving. Since it has a PID the temp. surfing between coffee and milk is easier...there is actually a really good video showing this. Still a single boiler so there will be some delay between the shot and milk.

--

BZ07 - $1299 CDN
Click Here (www.idrinkcoffee.com)
This is the only HX machine I'm looking at only to make the milk frothing easier and faster while brewing the shot.

I guess the problem I'm having is they all look like good machines but I'm really trying to avoid price creep - $400 from the bottom to the top.

Thank you for helping me out - I really appreciate it.

Matt
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friendlyfoe
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 122
Location: toronto
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 8:00am
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

Welcome to the club! That is the price creep club, I've been in the same boat as you for about a week and here's what I've learned.  If you're going to be making a lot of milk drinks just think, is it going to drive you insane having your espresso shot sit there while you wait for it to switch to steam, wait for the milk to froth, all while your espresso just sits there....

Without looking it up on my phone I think the unica doesn't have a true e61 group head, so no lever. My understanding is without the lever you don't get the true pre-infusion that and e61 offers, and it has a stupid little button to make it brew instead of the nice manual lever. Would you be happy with that?

Spend a little more still and you get better insulation, better electronics, better fail safe devices (backups in some cases) and the list goes on. I've concluded to get a prosumer hx machine with everything you want you're in the 2000 range. For me personally if I was going to get a single boiler I'd get a beginner machine like the gaggia classic, and invest more money in a grinder. That way when you eventually decide to upgrade to an hx or double boiler, and you will, you'll already have a killer grinder.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,745
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

Yes, that is an E61 on the Unica, the actuation lever is on the right side, about center of the group. Perhaps friendly was thinking of a lever MACHINE with an E61.

BZ09, should be a nice SBDU . If nothing else, you can get hot water from it through the brew group, just put an empty basket in the PF and "pull" the water through the brew group.

The BZ 07  is sometimes advised for a starter HX machine here.

You are really comparing two classes of machines. The HX is much higher capacity and stability as well as faster drink making

Please read the sticky thread at the top of the page, it helps us to get you on the correct road much quicker.

In addition to the machine, you will need to add a grinder and fresh beans to the setup. An espresso able grinder with a motor STARTS at $300 for a very basic grinder. Fresh beans are less than two weeks FROM THE DAY THEY WERE ROASTED.  Nothing from the supermarket is fresh and if there is no date, a best by date or a use before date, keep looking for coffee as those are hopelessly stale.

Welcome to the board!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Markarian
Senior Member
Markarian
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 656
Location: Seattle Area
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: ECM Technika IV Profi WT-WC
Grinder: Baratza Forte AP, HG One
Vac Pot: Bunn Trifecta MB
Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Hario V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 12:33pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

Avoid a single-boiler machine unless it means literally missing a mortgage payment.
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friendlyfoe
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 122
Location: toronto
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

i was thinking of the bz07, which looks a lot like an e61 group, but isnt. And instead of a lever has that little button that you have to hold down while brewing. The conclusion i came to being in the OPs shoes was that a professional quality single boiler machine is an oxymoron of sorts, and unless you only ever plan on drinking straight espresso they would probably drive you nuts. For that reason in my mind if budget is an issue and you need a single boiler get something less expensive
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,745
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

The BZ 07 is a HX machine, not a SBDU, there is nothing wrong with an electrically operated brew group, a whole lot of machines have them including all 4 of my commercial machines.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,745
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 4:58pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

I'm sorry friendly, I could have sworn that you said the unica was not an E61 and that there was a brew button it.
Like I said above the unica is an e61 it has a lever on the side of the group, it does not have a brew button, and even if it did it still would be an electronically actuated E61. Just like my ECM.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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friendlyfoe
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 122
Location: toronto
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 5:10pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

So what are your thoughts on the bz07 then cal? How does the group head on it compare to an E61? It was a machine i was originally interested in as well.
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russel
Senior Member
russel
Joined: 12 Mar 2010
Posts: 447
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Conti Princess 2grp, GS/3...
Grinder: Super Caimanos x2, Forte BG,...
Drip: V60, Kalita Wave, Clever,...
Posted Mon Oct 28, 2013, 9:48pm
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

I wouldn't get hung up on an e61 over another group head, especially if it pushes you down into the SBDU machines.  A large boiler and an HX are a lot more important...there are tons on great espresso machines that don't use e61s, pro-summer and commercial.  I have to say that I'm a big fan of Bezzera having owned several of their machines.

But I hate their new PF handle with the big Bezzera logo, so plasticy!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,745
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Oct 29, 2013, 6:23am
Subject: Re: Bezzera BZ09 vs BZ07 vs Unica
 

I agree with Russel.
Though the E61 is established and well respected, it is not the only group design to produce great espresso. Right now, I have 4 espresso machines and a thermoblock thing. The espresso machines all have different groups and each can produce great espresso. The thermoblock thing will never make great espresso but then that is because it is a thermoblock design. I bought two of them brand new in the box to be used as a source for parts as the combo price was less than a single vibe pump alone.

The Bz07 is a good starter choice for a HX machine and  has been pointed to several times as a machine to look at. The market is a state of flux all the time so at any given point in time, one machine may be a better value than another.

From memory, at the moment it may be a little more expensive than Oscar but it has a very different look so if you don't like the look of Oscar, the BZ07 may be a machine to look at. Anything in the HX realm is going to be much more able and consistent than a SBDU machine. But then HX machines cost more than SBDU.

Depending on the need of the buyer, a SBDU may be all the machine they could ever want so buying a high end SBDU can be a logical choice for someone who is not into milk drinks but prefers straight shots. In that case, when equipped with a PID and a nice brew group, a SBDU can produce EXCELLENT espresso. Everyone has different needs, desires and likes. That is the reason for the stickey at the start of the forum, to try to find out about the person asking the question and point them in the direction of gear that will fit their desires and needs.


In the following statement, "I" is speaking as someone giving advice, it is not ME, CALBLACKSMITH, speaking.

It is hard to not want to advise people to buy what "I" have, after all, if I am happy with it, I feel that it was a good value and a solid performer. The problem comes though when the person who is asking for advice, has different needs and preferences to what they want to look at on their counter so what is right for ME may not come close to what the person asking questions would like.
"end example"

While I have had the chance to use all the classes of machines and have been inside many of them, I have not used EVERY machine. I can make general statements about a machine in a class such as SBDU, HX, DB, COMMERCIAL etc, any SPECIFIC machine may be slightly different than what I have used so I can not give advice about a SPECIFIC machine that I have not used. I let owners of that particular machine help people with specific questions.

So, in general, Any HX machine will be more all around able than a SBDU, if a person is looking to make at lest half of the drinks with milk (and that is perfectly fine, I like milk drinks too!) and has the budget, a HX will likely be a better fit for a person. Do remember too, as the machines become more able, the requirement for a good grinder goes up and shortcomings of starter grinders become more glaring.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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