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Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
Rocket Espresso R58 Double Boiler -  Everything you need for the perfect shot!
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Tue Oct 29, 2013, 9:56pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

I got the tracking # for Pham's tamper today. :)
I calipered my PF basket at 58.7mm with the caliper fingers halfway down the flat side of the basket wall, even if it's .2 off I still have a little clearance, and I think the caliper is only .1 mm off at most.

I'm probably stupid for even considering it, but I really like the HG One grinder. Yes, it's manual. But good grief it's a beautiful piece of kit, and it's something I wouldn't ever need to upgrade from except if I wanted motorized. Maybe someday... *sigh*
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,220
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Tue Oct 29, 2013, 10:08pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

I've had a Hai Pham (aka Coffee Complements) 58.3, flat, serrated disc "Tamper for Billiards Lovers" (the eight ball) for years; as well as a bunch of 58mm tampers made by several different manufacturers sold at a variety of prices.  Just to be clear, the 58.3 is for VST and LaStrada baskets.  It fits those like a charm, creating a nice tight seal of puck to edge of basket. It's too large to fit most standard baskets.

But... BUT...  BUT...

There's a larger perspective, one which you should be aware of.  If there's a practical difference in use between 58mm and 58.3mm, it is extremely slight -- probably not noticeable in the cup by the most demanding taster.  The three best things about the 58.3mm tamper are the way the eight ball fits my hand; the immature joy I take from the eight ball; and the similarly immature joy I take from the way-cool looking, non-functional, serrated pattern it leaves on the puck.  

Go for something you like for how it fits your hand and how much you like its looks, but don't expect miracles from a perfect fit.  

The eight-ball is my favorite tamper.

BDL
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Oct 30, 2013, 7:45pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Yep - agreed, I'm not expecting miracles, but I am just looking for a bit better fit than the stock all-plastic CC1 tamper. It's a great tamper for a factory-included tamper, but the Hai Pham 8-Ball is just fun to use!

And unless someone can convince me otherwise, I think I'm going to save up and get the HG One grinder as a present to myself when I put on E-7. I don't mind manual if it renders good espresso.
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friendlyfoe
Senior Member


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 122
Location: toronto
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Wed Oct 30, 2013, 8:42pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Just make sure you understand how long manual actually takes.

Manual seemed reasonable to me for pourover/drip coffee, but espresso i think takes about 3 times as long (dont quote me on exact ratio). Could you imagine if friends came over and you wanted to offer them an espresso? I think the idea of not minding manual is great in theory, i had considered it at one point, but during busy hectic days a manual grinder for me personally would be the difference between making or not making espresso.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Oct 30, 2013, 9:38pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

HG One is fairly quick as it gets broken in (won't be as quick as an electric but its not gonna take a min + to grind either), not one of the little slow hand grinders. Has a large Titan burr set. Pry my next grinder too as I single dose. My Mini Slim, now that damn thing is slooooow lol.
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Wed Oct 30, 2013, 11:08pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

I hear ya friendlyfoe - but I'm the fool who switched mostly over to safety razor shaving from a top-of-the-line Braun electric because the results, while SLOOOOWWWW, are way better once you get things right.

It's going to sound sad, but I don't have friends to share espresso with. My wife might have a shot in the morning, but she couldn't care less how good it is. My son is the only one who will really even try straight shots with me, and he has the patience of Job (weird for a 15 year old). I still will have the KA Proline for "hectic" days - people that want fast usually aren't discriminating. If I were regularly entertaining, I'd buy a Robur and call it a day, but George Thorogood's "I Drink Alone" is pretty much my theme song! Such is the cost for being a lifer in the military, by the time you make friends, it's time for you or them to move somewhere else. My civvie friends are great, but we don't hang out inside. It's why my CC1 is perfect for me. I cannot do high-volume production with it, but doing a double-double shot for myself is no problem.

The HG One speaks to me in a way. I like all the neat design considerations it has - the way the bottom funnel is attached with three tiny magnets to the massive 83mm conical burrs to the large flywheel. And just like safety razor shaving - it's has that, "I had to work for this"-like craftsmaship that an electric grinder doesn't have. No one really has huge complaints about the grinder other than it being manual from what I could find.

edit - and this isn't to slam the Crossland CC1 or the Kitchenaid Proline. With both I can easily meet or exceed Starbucks level of espresso. Given that was my original goal, I think I've done quite well. But I can see now I can take my espresso to a much higher level someday, and I will.
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,023
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Thu Oct 31, 2013, 6:27am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

You already have upgraditius.  :) it happens to the best of us. I think the CC1 is a good design and you should be happy for a while with it.  I would try to hold out a year if you can.  You learn so much in the first 6 months or so then really enjoy coasting the 2nd 6.  Then you should be in really good shape to know what you want to move up.

I try hard to head off as much upgraditius as I can before people buy.  That is why I try to get people to see the advantage of going used so they can start out a bit ahead of the upgrades for the same cash.

HG1 is a great hand grinder, I have used the pharos and the HG1 and grinding with HG1 is much better for the user.  I can't talk about taste because I was only pulling a few shots on each and not at the same time.   I just can't be bothered in the morning with hand cranking.  I already miss the W feature of my vario and I am back to weighing the grinds from my big grinder.  So I am slower now than with the vario W.  But I can taste the difference in the cup.  And the vario is a great machine and made a good cup of espresso.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 676
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Oct 31, 2013, 7:23am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

I think there is as many tastes for the perfect shot as there is coffee beans. Everyone has their own idea of how to get to the end product. For me, I still think weighing my shots and trying to hit my grind weight and yield weight landmarks in a given amount of time works best for me. Others say that is the absolute wrong way to do it. In the end, we all do what works best for us. I know that if I hit my landmarks I have determined as the "best taste" I always have a good shot... maybe some are a little better than others, but they are all good.

As for grinders, I think it takes me a lot of time to make one espresso milk drink in the morning... but not as long as driving out of my way to go to Starbucks or some other coffee shop... plus I save money and have a better product. With that said, by the time I make my coffee, clean up the mess, clean the steam wand, wash my PF (yes I wash it) and wash my steam pitcher, and other utensils I am sure I spend 12 minutes or more. That doesn't sound like a lot until I realize I am going to be late to the office. For that reason, I would find as convenient to use grinder as I could... and a electric grinder that will dose straight into the PF or weight the shot would be the only way for me.

There is a lot of people here with a lot of experience. In the end you will be able to gather a lot of different ideas and then develop your own methods.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 676
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Nov 4, 2013, 4:45pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Keith: Are you still monitoring this thread? Was wondering how you ended up? Did you like the Redbird?
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:39am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Sorry, got sidetracked!

I haven't tried the Redbird yet. It's resting happily in the freezer in vac bags for now, I'm trying to use up the local coffee. I might just throw this particular local roast out, I've never gotten a great shot from it. I'm using the spouted portafilter for this bean as I can't seem to find a balance between gushers and extremely slow extraction, unlike the last batch of beans. I can't totally blame the roaster as it wasn't marketed as an espresso bean or roast, but I wanted to try it out. I'll switch to the naked PF for the Redbird. Most of the shots are good mixed with milk, but harsh-ish straight. Who knows, maybe if I had a HG One I could make this bean work.

The tamper from Hai Pham came in with the flat 58.3mm base. I ordered it with the solid black aluminum handle but I switched handles with my other base, so now the 58.3mm tamper has the 8-ball. Oddly, the solid handle in 58.3mm was $8 cheaper than the 8-ball. If I had ordered the 58mm base, the cost was exactly the same. The tamper is working well. Even when the grounds are packed along the walls there is little to no left clinging to the walls after tamping so it seems like a good fit.

Right now I need to get a good "yogurt cup" and a dissecting needle or equivalent to try. I have a cocktail whisk but it isn't mixing the grounds well it seems as the shots are a bit worse than if I just level and tamp. I'm not sure if nutating helps, I need to try more shots with and without.

It's funny how critical the grinder is. Or not the grinder per se, but how fine of an adjustment you can make with it. My KA Proline with the mazzer burrs is a GREAT coffee grinder - light, fluffy, well-sized grinds, but for espresso I'm struggling with setting it between 7.5 and 8. 8 drips so slow I have to let it run for 90 seconds to get a regular volume of extraction, and it's never tasty. 7.5 is good some days, most of the time it's too coarse and yields too many spritzers. It's like if I could dial in 7.61 I'd be pulling great shots. I'm envious of ya'll that can adjust extraction time plus or minus one second through grind settings.

But a Titan grinder will have to wait. Convincing my wife to spend nearly $1K on a hand grinder is a long game. It's winnable, but only through time and many, many concessions. The fam is coming around to drinking espresso, so there's hope. A Mazzer Major or a Robur is out of the question - they're huge, and I don't want to dedicate that much counter space myself, forget the Wife Acceptance Factor!

But my shots are improving over time as I learn what procedure or process gives what result.
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