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New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New CC1 vs 2...  
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zelig
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Nov 4, 2013, 6:06pm
Subject: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

Hello,

Thank you for this informative site. I was originally drawn to the Breville Barista Express BES870XL, but this forum has convinced me that I should invest in a better machine.

So now I'm thinking of a buying a new CC1, which I can get for around $650 vs a 2 year old Oscar for $600. The owner of the Oscar says that he took good care of the machine and it's still working fine.  

I primarily want to use the machine for espresso (an average of 2-3 shots a day) and perhaps an occasional latte.

I would probably purchase a preciso or perhaps a used vario as a grinder.

Any thoughts or recommendations? I must admit I have some reservations buying a used machine since it won't be under warranty, but I realize that even new machines can have problems down the line when out of warranty.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 1:33am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

zelig Said:

So now I'm thinking of a buying a new CC1, which I can get for around $650 vs a 2 year old Oscar for $600. The owner of the Oscar says that he took good care of the machine and it's still working fine.

Posted November 4, 2013 link

Well, the Oscar will trounce the CC1 in terms of steaming performance, but you may like the idea of the PID controlled temperature stability of the CC1 over the heat exchanger of the Oscar. It's a good toss up.

Between these two machines, I don't have personal experience with either one, but if I had to choose, the used Oscar is a good choice, especially consider what those machines sell for new.

zelig Said:

would probably purchase a preciso or perhaps a used vario as a grinder.

Posted November 4, 2013 link

If you can afford a Vario over a Precisio, do so. It's much more important that you find a decent grinder first before machine.

zelig Said:

new machines can have problems down the line when out of warranty.

Posted November 4, 2013 link

There is a lot of knowledge in this forum about the Oscar. It's a very proven machine that has been around for a long time. As long as the Oscar was properly backflushed and descaled periodically, it'll do the job.

Good luck. :)

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 6:09am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

zelig Said:

I primarily want to use the machine for espresso (an average of 2-3 shots a day) and perhaps an occasional latte.

Posted November 4, 2013 link

Oscar. If your a tinker kind of person you might want to add a vacuum breaker though it is totally optional.

I tested the CC1 for a couple of weeks for an unpublished review and found the shots tended to be a little more sour. A scace test confirmed what the taste was telling me.

As for the Oscar trouncing the CCI steaming that is true if your steaming back to back drinks a dinner party or entertaining. The CC1 steams like a beast for a drink or two at the time, once she is ready to steam. I was making great micro foam on my first attempt with the CC1.

IMO if your drinking milk drinks primarily and not looking to bang out drinks one after the other for entertaining the CC1 is great choice. I think it is also a great choice for someone making the switch from a Super Automatic for the first and who's budget does not allow for next level. For  the straight shot drinker it is not quite as strong a contender.

Vario is a solid choice and buying refurb from the factory page is sort of middle ground to used and screw new. A used super jolly is roughly the grind equivalent and will likely out last you. If you take your time used does not have to mean banged up and ugly.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,854
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 6:44am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

PID isn't the big deal it is made out to be, it helps but your skill is what makes the drinks.

Oscar, running away and never looking back. Do take the time to add a vacuum breaker to it and you will be happy for a long time. The vacuum breaker allows you to put it on a timer.

There you go. One vote for CC1, one vote for Oscar and one pointing out the differences between the two, you are no better off now are you? LOL!

On a HX machine, a PID is really not going to help with brewing, there are some possible other things it can help with but brewing is not one of them and besides, a HX is really not a hard machine to use. NO temp surfing which is what the PID takes care of on a SBDU and on  a DB it regulates the brew water.

CC1 is a good starter machine, no question but Oscar is a common step up when moving up the machines in better espresso, why not start where you will end up in a year or two anyway. That is not to say that you may not want to move up from Oscar but there will not be a NEED to do so, want perhaps but need, not likely.

GRINDER, GRINDER, GRINDER, I would move up to a commercial grinder from Vario but that is me, I like commercial grade gear, I feel it lasts longer but there is a size of machine thing to deal with so in that case, YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,036
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 7:59am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

I vote Oscar but I have one and I love the mods I did.  If you can get used for a good price it is totally worth it.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 8:03am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

calblacksmith Said:

There you go. One vote for CC1, one vote for Oscar and one pointing out the differences between the two, you are no better off now are you? LOL!

Posted November 5, 2013 link

I hope my post did not read as a vote for the CC1. Totally Oscar with vacuum breaker.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,854
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 10:34am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

Sorry, about that, somehow I miss read the post, my fault!

Three votes for Oscar, I think I see a pattern here!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,316
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:14pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

An Oscar is better built, a more prolific steamer, easier to DIY repair or mod, and will probably outlast a CC1. A CC1 doesn't take as much practice to steam, or to pull good shots.  I'm not sure if it's fair to say that the CC1 is inherently more consistent, but it's easier -- especially for someone who doesn't have much experience -- to be consistent using a CC1 than an Oscar.  

This is (a) because the CC1 employs a PID controlled brew boiler; and (b) because the Oscar's group isn't stabilized in any way, doesn't have much mass, and just isn't that consistent.  Compared to using a generic, E-61 HX, the CC1 is easier, the Oscar a little more complicated, the CC1 a little more consistent, the Oscar a little less.  

jwoodyu Said:

I tested the CC1 for a couple of weeks ... and found the shots tended to be a little more sour. A scace test confirmed what the taste was telling me.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

With respect, this comment makes no sense.  "Sour" isn't an inherent artifact of the machine, it's a product of brewing too cold. The CC1 allows for easy, consistent temperature adjustment.  

Both the CC1 and Oscar are decent machines.  Neither is great.  Either will make good coffee used correctly.  Of course, you'll have to teach yourself how to taste and "dial in."  No machine can do those things for you.  Neither can anyone say -- without knowing quite a bit about you -- which machine would serve you better.  

The Baratza Preciso is the least expensive grinder on the market with enough control and consistency to be adequate for espresso.  A Vario in good condition is hugely better in both respects -- but it's still a prosumer grade flat burr.  Be aware that neither is very good, unless reserved for "espresso only."  

BDL
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:48pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

boar_d_laze Said:

With respect, this comment makes no sense.  "Sour" isn't an inherent artifact of the machine, it's a product of brewing too cold. The CC1 allows for easy, consistent temperature adjustment.  
BDL

Posted November 5, 2013 link

With respect, It totally make sense. I tasted it first then checked with a scace which confirmed there is a not insignificant "ramp up" to temperature meaning the first part of the shot is indeed brewed colder than than the PID setting. While it is not a deal killer in a milk drink for me i would not choose it for straight shots.  IMO someone coming out of a super auto would find the CC1 a step up in quality of results.

Temp stability "ain't" everything but a PID does not cure all temperature related ills.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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jonr
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 298
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

The Scace itself has a not insignificant "ramp up" to temperature.  If you really want to know what the coffee sees, I recommend a bare RTD or bare thermocouple wires just above real coffee.
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