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New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > New CC1 vs 2...  
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 1:26pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

jonr Said:

The Scace itself has a not insignificant "ramp up" to temperature.  If you really want to know what the coffee sees, I recommend a bare RTD or bare thermocouple wires just above real coffee.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

The "ramp up" time observed was relative to my E-61 DB on with the same scace, same session, multiple passes on each.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,382
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 1:28pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

jwoodyu Said:

With respect, It totally make sense. I tasted it first then checked with a scace which confirmed there is a not insignificant "ramp up" to temperature meaning the first part of the shot is indeed brewed colder than than the PID setting. While it is not a deal killer in a milk drink for me i would not choose it for straight shots.  IMO someone coming out of a super auto would find the CC1 a step up in quality of results.

Temp stability "ain't" everything but a PID does not cure all temperature related ills.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

Sounds like that machine had incorrect settings? I've tested mine and its fine on temp and pulled shots on an friends Oscar with same blend, no difference as far as taste. Both with Preciso, though now he has a Vario and easily a difference in taste (better). Even Dean on here scace'd his when he changed factory settings and the shots were now equal to his Vetrano 2B, thinking the factory settings (like offset etc) don't work in all areas with different altitude and weather etc, I adjusted mine as well (kinda like how the Brazen takes care of that issue with drip brewers).

That said, if your not doing milk drinks really, think you'll be fine with the CC1 though it has no problem steaming and is quite strong and easy to make microfoam, PID makes repeated shots so easy. If you want commercial construction and a steaming beast, Oscar, but it def needs the known mods to work well. Either way can't go wrong. I wouldn't worry about the Oscar being "used" as long as it was taken care of as it's a stout machine.

OP - Vario period, I like the Preciso, heck I own one, but the Vario is far better taste wise.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,276
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 2:26pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

jonr Said:

The Scace itself has a not insignificant "ramp up" to temperature.  If you really want to know what the coffee sees, I recommend a bare RTD or bare thermocouple wires just above real coffee.

Posted November 5, 2013 link

Also, important to note that CC1 -- like most espresso machines with a dedicated, PID controlled brew boiler -- requires a "warm up flush" before brewing.

BDL
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 2:39pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

I don't own either machine and I am not interested in defending or slamming either one. I am just offering my opinion after having worked with the CC1.

The temperatures were measured on a data logging Fluke fresh back from calibration not some inferior instrument. The temps were recorded each second during a 27 second shot which of course makes each measurement relative to all the other data points in that same test. I charted the data points  after each test and the same pattern emerged, a slower but steady ramp up to the oscillation of temp up and down began near the end of the shot. This as opposed to a 4 second ramp up to full temp and a low amplitude oscillating as the PID did its thing on a E-61 DB.

If an Oscar does not have much mass in the group and is not all that stable I should not be surprised that pulls shots relatively equal to a CC1. If all those things about an Oscar are true then it can hardly be categorized as a "Commercial".


It is true it could have been a jinky machine, it could have been lemon, it could have been droped out of a speeding train, thrown from a truck, attacked by Nargles, it could be that the there is no Santa Clause, no gravity and the only truth is the world just sucks. Or I could be the world's largest dumb ass compared to everyone on CoffeeGeek ;-)

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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zelig
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 5:39pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

Thank you all for your input. It's very helpful although some of your discussion is over my noobie head.

I see that the Oscar is clearly favored over the CC1. Honestly, I was not hoping to do any modifications, at least for now as I'm already having to make a big investment in the machine and grinder.

Is there another option around the $600 price range for a machine (new or used) that might be comparable to the Oscar, but would not require any mods?

There is an Astra Pro on craigslist in my area for $600.

Thanks again!
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mgwolf
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 392
Location: Plymouth, MN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium 1, Olympia Cremina
Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Baratza Maestro
Vac Pot: Yama, Sunbeam C50
Drip: Krups Moka Brew, Chemex
Posted Tue Nov 5, 2013, 6:56pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

The Astro Pro, by all accounts, is a very well built machine and has an E61 group head, better than a CC1 or Oscar.  If it's in good shape for $600, you should check it out.  The Astro machines tend to use high quality, commercial grade components.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,276
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:14am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

Astra Pro is one of the least expensive E-61s on the market.  It's well priced, made in the USA, has a good group, a very large boiler, and -- incredible for the price -- a rotary pump.  The one thing it lacks is a hot water tap.  That would be a deal breaker for me, but may not bother you in the slightest.  

I don't know what used Astra Pros go for, but $600 seems more than reasonable for a machine in good shape.

New, at retail, because of its bigger boiler and superior group, the Astra is a better machine than the Oscar.  Every used machine is sui generis, so I can't say anything specific about the one you're considering.  

BDL
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,786
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:36am
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

Like the Oscar, without a hot water tap, it is still easy to get hot water, just put the empty PF / basket into the group head and "pull" the water. Until I got my M32 with the blended hot water tap (it blends cold water with the boiler water to a nice 180f) I would "pull" hot water on my ECM as much as from the boiler. It DOES have a tap but I liked the slightly cooler water from the group head more than the steam/water that you draw from most machines boilers. YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,382
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:07pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

I read on the Astro they are self tamping, and if you want to use a normal PF and tamp yourself you have to order a new dispersion screen assembly or something like that. Not sure if it depends on the model? Never heard of that before? But it looks like a nice machine and has the e61 group
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fredk01
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 136
Location: Canada
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Saeco Aroma
Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:23pm
Subject: Re: New CC1 vs 2 year old Oscar?
 

I just looked at the specs on that Astra pro.  120 cups/hr?  You gonna be some juiced dude! ;-)

How does one make 120 cups an hour on a single group machine?
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