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Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
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Discussions > Espresso > Machines > Keep what I...  
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,451
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 6:05am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

You don't need to spend the money for a Titan unless  that's what you want to do. You could get a Baratza Vario and it will far outperform the Kitchenaid with Mazzer burrs. It's not a problem with the burrs, but the inherent flaws of the grinder itself for espresso. You could sell it on here or Ebay and scoop up an Vario for cheap, especially if Baratza list a refurb on their site. Thanks for the update on the tamper, I'll pry order a 58.3 myself. Yogurt cup, just any normal 6oz yogurt will do, just keep trimming the bottom till it fits snuggly in the basket.
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DanoM
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 394
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 6:28am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Sounds like your first big improvement will be a reliable grinder.  I know you have money into the Kitchenaid modded grinder, but you'll like your espresso that much more if you get a good grind.  Even a small $60 hand grinder might work okay, some people have gotten by with the Turkish brass mill grinders too although they are harder to adjust.  The sooner you make good espresso the sooner your S.O. will approve the next upgrade!!!

Maybe you can find some local people with a spare grinder to loan you for a while.
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 7:42am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

What about a Kyocera or the semi-famous Hario hand mills? They seem to be decently well regarded on H-B.com, what do ya'll folks think?

The Kyocera is $50 roughly, and the Hario is $40. They may lack bells and whistles, but I can easily justify buying that for now. Looking at the two on amazon, they appear identical in the pictures, is there a difference? Even if it's a minor difference, I can swallow the $10 cost disparity.

edit - I've also read about people motorizing the Hario with drills. That's appealing to me - I can scratch my tinkering itch if pure hand grinding gets too tedious. Won't look as nice as the Kitchenaid, but that's okay. I've also read that it's significantly quieter than any electric - that's a huge bonus as I'm wanting a shot when the wife's asleep sometimes. Even with the KA which isn't terribly loud, it's a no-go.
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DanoM
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 394
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 8:53am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

I don't have experience with the Kyocera & Hario mills, but on HB there are several people that do use them.  There are a few mods to get them working better in fine adjustments too.  That is the direction I would lean if you don't have a budget for something right now, but the cranking is something people tire of quickly - so the idea of hooking it up to a drill run at low speed is a good one.
I'd lean toward one that can be modded easily for fine, stable adjustments and hooking up to a drill if needed.

You'll likely be making better espresso with one of these, and eventually get the wife to allow for a new machine.

Now you mentioned noise as an issue...  You might want to stay away from some of the commercial grinders that people love unless you get sound reports from a current user.  Some of those can be quite noisy.  My Baratza Vario is relatively quiet, but it's not silent by any means.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,451
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 9:20am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

You can get a Hario Skerton, and mod it with I think a #8 Nylock nut from any hardware store which will make it stepless.... look for Burner2000 on here, he has some post about it or you could message him. I would do that, sell the Kitchenaid, and then you can sell the Hario if you want or whatever and use the funds towards something like the Vario which is the best bang for buck grinder around.
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keithd
Senior Member
keithd
Joined: 24 Oct 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario...
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Nov 7, 2013, 10:34pm
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

Should I get a Hario Skerton or a Mini Mill?

I don't ask trivially as the Mini Mill has a distinct advantage of the "hopper" being able to entirely fit inside the PF basket. Just put the basket upside down on the detached hopper, invert, done. The Skerton would need to be scooped/funneled/whatnot. I also don't have giant hands, but if one or the other grinder is clearly better the size isn't a major factor.

I also really like the Mini Mill as a travel grinder. When I go deployed again, it will be nice to drag my EC155 and the hand mill with me. Won't be able to use the freshest beans, but at least the grind will be good.

To clarify, I intend to use whichever Hario for espresso and espresso only. I will relegate the KA Proline to drip/Aeropress duties as it apparently excells at that. And I get that it will be tedious, but I'm prepared to deal with that at least for now.
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DeanOK
Senior Member
DeanOK
Joined: 24 Sep 2012
Posts: 715
Location: OK
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: QM Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 4:39am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

keithd Said:

...I've also read that it's significantly quieter than any electric - that's a huge bonus as I'm wanting a shot when the wife's asleep sometimes. Even with the KA which isn't terribly loud, it's a no-go.

Posted November 7, 2013 link

Keith: do you remember how noisy my Vario W was when you were here? I have not only owned two electric grinders and they were both pretty noisy.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,451
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 5:36am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

keithd Said:

Should I get a Hario Skerton or a Mini Mill?

I don't ask trivially as the Mini Mill has a distinct advantage of the "hopper" being able to entirely fit inside the PF basket. Just put the basket upside down on the detached hopper, invert, done. The Skerton would need to be scooped/funneled/whatnot. I also don't have giant hands, but if one or the other grinder is clearly better the size isn't a major factor.

I also really like the Mini Mill as a travel grinder. When I go deployed again, it will be nice to drag my EC155 and the hand mill with me. Won't be able to use the freshest beans, but at least the grind will be good.

To clarify, I intend to use whichever Hario for espresso and espresso only. I will relegate the KA Proline to drip/Aeropress duties as it apparently excells at that. And I get that it will be tedious, but I'm prepared to deal with that at least for now.

Posted November 7, 2013 link

I have a Mini Mill, it's hard to dial for espresso and wouldn't recommend it as it's stepped, but it's fine for pressurized portafilter machines like the EC155. It does have the topper which is cool. But others have said the Skerton with the Nylock mod, becomes pretty good for espresso use since it'll be stepless. One thing, these hand grinders have small conical burr sets so they grind slowly, can take a couple minutes to grind a dose lol.

Or you could pony up for the Pharos hand grinder, which is only like 240 or so I think and has a 64mm I believe conical set, however it's quirky to use and you'll want the VooDoo mods that help out a ton. If electric The Vario and Preciso are about the same as far as loudness, their actually on the quiet side of grinders, yeh you'll know their on no doubt, but not like other  "stout" grinders like Mazzer, Compaq etc where a lot of them sound like mini jet turbines lol. On the flip side if you get an new electric, you could get just a Mini Mill to keep around for coarse grinding which it's pretty good at but I modded mine, the Skerton would pry be better as you can still do the stepless mod, but also there's a ball bearing kit from Orphan Espresso that stabilizes the assembly for coarse grinding.
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,869
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 6:11am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

CMIN Said:

You don't need to spend the money for a Titan unless  that's what you want to do. You could get a Baratza Vario and it will far outperform the Kitchenaid with Mazzer burrs. It's not a problem with the burrs, but the inherent flaws of the grinder itself for espresso. You could sell it on here or Ebay and scoop up an Vario for cheap, especially if Baratza list a refurb on their site. Thanks for the update on the tamper, I'll pry order a 58.3 myself. Yogurt cup, just any normal 6oz yogurt will do, just keep trimming the bottom till it fits snuggly in the basket.

Posted November 7, 2013 link

This is not what I have experienced with these grinders you mention.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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EricBNC
Senior Member
EricBNC
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 1,869
Location: North Carolina
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM Silvano, LP Stradivarius,...
Grinder: K30, Major, Preciso, Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam C30, Bodum Santos...
Drip: Bonavita BV-1800,...
Roaster: Behmor, Melitta, Fresh...
Posted Fri Nov 8, 2013, 6:21am
Subject: Re: Keep what I have, CC1, or something else?
 

keithd Said:

It's funny how critical the grinder is. Or not the grinder per se, but how fine of an adjustment you can make with it. My KA Proline with the mazzer burrs is a GREAT coffee grinder - light, fluffy, well-sized grinds, but for espresso I'm struggling with setting it between 7.5 and 8. 8 drips so slow I have to let it run for 90 seconds to get a regular volume of extraction, and it's never tasty. 7.5 is good some days, most of the time it's too coarse and yields too many spritzers. It's like if I could dial in 7.61 I'd be pulling great shots. I'm envious of ya'll that can adjust extraction time plus or minus one second through grind settings.

Posted November 6, 2013 link

Modding the KA to step-less adjustment is easier than the swapping mazzer burrs mod.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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